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No I mean in what sense could it possibly be “sexist”? It’s not demeaning to women, at least not more so than to men. It might be a bit raunchy, but in a gender

No I mean in what sense could it possibly be “sexist”? It’s not demeaning to women, at least not more so than to men. It might be a bit raunchy, but in a gender neutral way.

dekhn 5y ago
it's sexist in the minds of people like ashley who want to take down apple. probably due to misinterpretation or misunderstanding on her part.
mint2 5y ago
Here is a somewhat wandering account of the term, showing it’s many sides. Enjoy. https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/11/02/360479744/why-corporate-executives-talk-about-opening-their-kimonos https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/11/02/360479744...
- dekhn 5y ago
  It appears that the beliefs of most of the people who are opposed to it are based on incorrect assumptions (for example kimono -> geisha). Put another way, the people who are using it are neither intending to be insulting, racist, or sexist, and the people complaining about don't have a legitimate reason to be unhappy, because their analysis is just wrong.
  - mint2 5y ago
    That line of argument is probably not going to convince HR or a lot of 50% of the nation. If you play a word association game, having people say the first word or words that come to mind when they see the word “kimono” what do you think the top few will be? My guess is that for an average American, the top three would be Japan, geisha and clothing. What do you think most Americans would say? And what are your top three?
    - dekhn 5y ago
      my top three are "elegant" "samurai" "oshiroi" because I grew up reading american manga But yes, many people in america group "geisha" "oshiroi" and "kabuki" all sort of mix together into this image: https://geishakai.pl/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/HANAFUSA-24042017-323-667x1024.jpg https://geishakai.pl/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/HANAFUSA-240... I would be more than happily to be pulled up to HR if a coworker reported me for saying "open kimono" (not a phrase I would normally say). I'm sure HR would have a wonderful time talking to my lawyer.
    - Grustaf 5y ago
      This is so stupid I don't even know what to say. Geishas have kimonos hence expressions involving kimonos are sexist? Samurai also wear kimonos, as do priests and sumo wrestlers. Sure, the general public is uneducated but come on, this is reaching. I seriously doubt most people even make the connection between geishas and kimonos. In fact, most people don't even mean kimono when they say kimono, they mean a vaguely asiatic thin robe, pretty popular in the 80s. That also makes more sense for the expressions, since they are easy to open. An actual kimono takes 10 minutes to open, it's probably the least sexually suggestive garment in the world.
      - mint2 5y ago
        Okay righty there you got it. You just said why many people would find the phrase sexist (you actually say most people) > “ In fact, most people don't even mean kimono when they say kimono, they mean a vaguely asiatic thin robe, pretty popular in the 80s” The difficulty in understanding how most people would react to the phrase appears to be because you’re judging it based on your understanding of the term, not on what you yourself said is the general public’s understanding.
        Grustaf 5y ago
        No, that's the thing. Even if we pretend it's a female garment (even American "kimonos" aren't), I really don't see why using the word in a turn of phrase would be "sexist". It's not implying in any way that women are prone to flashing, that women would be in any way inferior, or that actual women should open their actual kimonos. You are just using the image of a (supposedly) female garment. Just like saying "like a kick in the balls" isn't sexist. It doesn't imply you want to kick men or anything like that.

No I mean in what sense could it possibly be “sexist”? It’s not demeaning to women, at least not more so than to men. It might be a bit raunchy, but in a gender neutral way.

dekhn 5y ago

it's sexist in the minds of people like ashley who want to take down apple. probably due to misinterpretation or misunderstanding on her part.

mint2 5y ago

Here is a somewhat wandering account of the term, showing it’s many sides. Enjoy. https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/11/02/360479744/why-corporate-executives-talk-about-opening-their-kimonos https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/11/02/360479744...

dekhn 5y ago
It appears that the beliefs of most of the people who are opposed to it are based on incorrect assumptions (for example kimono -> geisha). Put another way, the people who are using it are neither intending to be insulting, racist, or sexist, and the people complaining about don't have a legitimate reason to be unhappy, because their analysis is just wrong.
- mint2 5y ago
  That line of argument is probably not going to convince HR or a lot of 50% of the nation. If you play a word association game, having people say the first word or words that come to mind when they see the word “kimono” what do you think the top few will be? My guess is that for an average American, the top three would be Japan, geisha and clothing. What do you think most Americans would say? And what are your top three?
  - dekhn 5y ago
    my top three are "elegant" "samurai" "oshiroi" because I grew up reading american manga But yes, many people in america group "geisha" "oshiroi" and "kabuki" all sort of mix together into this image: https://geishakai.pl/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/HANAFUSA-24042017-323-667x1024.jpg https://geishakai.pl/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/HANAFUSA-240... I would be more than happily to be pulled up to HR if a coworker reported me for saying "open kimono" (not a phrase I would normally say). I'm sure HR would have a wonderful time talking to my lawyer.
  - Grustaf 5y ago
    This is so stupid I don't even know what to say. Geishas have kimonos hence expressions involving kimonos are sexist? Samurai also wear kimonos, as do priests and sumo wrestlers. Sure, the general public is uneducated but come on, this is reaching. I seriously doubt most people even make the connection between geishas and kimonos. In fact, most people don't even mean kimono when they say kimono, they mean a vaguely asiatic thin robe, pretty popular in the 80s. That also makes more sense for the expressions, since they are easy to open. An actual kimono takes 10 minutes to open, it's probably the least sexually suggestive garment in the world.
    - mint2 5y ago
      Okay righty there you got it. You just said why many people would find the phrase sexist (you actually say most people) > “ In fact, most people don't even mean kimono when they say kimono, they mean a vaguely asiatic thin robe, pretty popular in the 80s” The difficulty in understanding how most people would react to the phrase appears to be because you’re judging it based on your understanding of the term, not on what you yourself said is the general public’s understanding.
      - Grustaf 5y ago
        No, that's the thing. Even if we pretend it's a female garment (even American "kimonos" aren't), I really don't see why using the word in a turn of phrase would be "sexist". It's not implying in any way that women are prone to flashing, that women would be in any way inferior, or that actual women should open their actual kimonos. You are just using the image of a (supposedly) female garment. Just like saying "like a kick in the balls" isn't sexist. It doesn't imply you want to kick men or anything like that.