3 ms·

> When you skip the vaccine you are now putting others at risk. When you skip the flu vaccine you put others at risk. In a normal year 40k people die of the fl

by mfer 5y ago

> When you skip the vaccine you are now putting others at risk. When you skip the flu vaccine you put others at risk. In a normal year 40k people die of the flu in the US. At what point do we draw what lines? I'm not suggesting what that point is. Just that we slow down, think about it, and understand the tradeoff. There is no perfect answer. There is also the element of the co-founding factors. Things like heart disease. Many of the co-founding factors, though not all, are repercussions of lifestyle (e.g., most heart disease is the result of many years of unhealthy eating). We don't force people to eat healthy which would avoid a significant amount of disease and related factors in COVID deaths. I realize this is not all cases... and I'm attempting to push thoughts forward rather than state my own ideas. Thinking this stuff through in depth is important. Seeing folks on the other side is important.

HWR_14 5y ago
> At what point do we draw what lines? Somewhere. One one side, we don't allow you to shoot anyone you see to protect yourself against COVID. On the other we don't allow people with COVID to intentionally infect people (even sneezing on them in an obviously purposeful way implying you have COVID is getting punished.) So we draw it somewhere. > Just that we slow down, think about it, and understand the tradeoff. No. I have no desire to slow down. It's killing people now. It's delaying cancer treatments now. It's causing people to die of burst appendixes because they cannot get treatment now. If we need to revisit, fine. But it has to be after taking action.
belltaco 5y ago
>In a normal year 40k people die of the flu in the US. So we draw the line somewhere between 40k and the number of deaths from covid? Note, it's not 650K in the US, those are deaths after all the social distancing, mask wearing, etc and more recently vaccinations. The true number would have been in the millions just in the US if these precautions weren't taken. Actually the IFR/CFR would be at a higher rate than now because hospitals would have been completely pummeled so people who now survive due to hospital care would die at home or in an ambulance waiting for a bed. Not to mention long covid, organ damage etc. The economy would suffer even with everything open. Are you saying that you would draw the line at more than millions dead in a year in the US for covid because we draw the line higher than 40k per year for the flu? If anything can be learnt from this, I think the argument can be that we can do more to combat flu every year, make it socially necessary for sick people to stay at home or mask up in subways etc.(like in Japan), increase testing, increase uptake of vaccines, new better MRNA vaccines etc.
- _-david-_ 5y ago
  >So we draw the line somewhere between 40k and the number of deaths from covid? Why do we need to draw the line there? Why not at 10k or 1m? It seems like you are advocating we arbitrarily pick the number to not include the flu but to include covid without providing a good reason.
  - belltaco 5y ago
    How is 10k or 1m not artbitrary? Society has already drawn the line where I stated. You can make arguments for or against it, for example by stating 1M deaths from a respiratory should be okay.
    - _-david-_ 5y ago
      I am not actually saying it should be 10k or 1m. I am saying your numbers appear to be arbitrary and am asking you why you didn't pick the numbers I listed. Also, society has not really drawn the line. Politicians and unelected bureaucrats have chosen for us.
sitkack 5y ago
> many years of unhealthy eating Which itself is an epidemic. There are multiple levels of cellular automata at work here, riding on each other like layers of foam. The Meme of COVID being all of the AJ talking points. The antivaxxers are a surrogate host, they act in symbiosis. The mind virus and the cellular virus reinforce each other.

by mfer 5y ago

HWR_14 5y ago

> At what point do we draw what lines? Somewhere. One one side, we don't allow you to shoot anyone you see to protect yourself against COVID. On the other we don't allow people with COVID to intentionally infect people (even sneezing on them in an obviously purposeful way implying you have COVID is getting punished.) So we draw it somewhere. > Just that we slow down, think about it, and understand the tradeoff. No. I have no desire to slow down. It's killing people now. It's delaying cancer treatments now. It's causing people to die of burst appendixes because they cannot get treatment now. If we need to revisit, fine. But it has to be after taking action.

belltaco 5y ago

>In a normal year 40k people die of the flu in the US. So we draw the line somewhere between 40k and the number of deaths from covid? Note, it's not 650K in the US, those are deaths after all the social distancing, mask wearing, etc and more recently vaccinations. The true number would have been in the millions just in the US if these precautions weren't taken. Actually the IFR/CFR would be at a higher rate than now because hospitals would have been completely pummeled so people who now survive due to hospital care would die at home or in an ambulance waiting for a bed. Not to mention long covid, organ damage etc. The economy would suffer even with everything open. Are you saying that you would draw the line at more than millions dead in a year in the US for covid because we draw the line higher than 40k per year for the flu? If anything can be learnt from this, I think the argument can be that we can do more to combat flu every year, make it socially necessary for sick people to stay at home or mask up in subways etc.(like in Japan), increase testing, increase uptake of vaccines, new better MRNA vaccines etc.

_-david-_ 5y ago
>So we draw the line somewhere between 40k and the number of deaths from covid? Why do we need to draw the line there? Why not at 10k or 1m? It seems like you are advocating we arbitrarily pick the number to not include the flu but to include covid without providing a good reason.
- belltaco 5y ago
  How is 10k or 1m not artbitrary? Society has already drawn the line where I stated. You can make arguments for or against it, for example by stating 1M deaths from a respiratory should be okay.
  - _-david-_ 5y ago
    I am not actually saying it should be 10k or 1m. I am saying your numbers appear to be arbitrary and am asking you why you didn't pick the numbers I listed. Also, society has not really drawn the line. Politicians and unelected bureaucrats have chosen for us.

sitkack 5y ago

> many years of unhealthy eating Which itself is an epidemic. There are multiple levels of cellular automata at work here, riding on each other like layers of foam. The Meme of COVID being all of the AJ talking points. The antivaxxers are a surrogate host, they act in symbiosis. The mind virus and the cellular virus reinforce each other.