4 ms·

I was commenting to a critical comment that was, in my opinion, controversial but acceptable. I don't know who flagged it and why, and it's now disappeared. P

I was commenting to a critical comment that was, in my opinion, controversial but acceptable. I don't know who flagged it and why, and it's now disappeared. Please, please, please: I'm the most provax person out there, but limiting the contrary voices won't lead this conversation anywhere constructive. The comment was saying the the policies against Covid so far were aimed at the distruction of normal. Here's what I would have replied: I can see part of your point. But how do we deal with the fact that the resistance to what you call "the destruction of normal" is mostly made by people that refuse science, fall victim to conspiracy theory, and have in general a tendency to apply magical thinking to policy making? I'm fully vaccinated and highly critical of how the crisis was handled. But here in Germany the no-vaxxers and the anti-maskers are a crowd of strongly individualistic people that span from tree-hugging spiritual healers to neonazis. There is no logical thinking in their thesis, and every critique is based on the rebuttal of statistics, numbers, and data-based decision making.

tomrod 5y ago
I believe it's time to roll up sleeves as a civic duty.
camillomiller 5y ago
Edit: I'm getting downvoted brigade-style for what? This was supposed to be a forum of civil and intellectual discussion, ffs!
zhdc1 5y ago
> There is no logical thinking in their thesis, and every critique is based on the rebuttal of statistics, numbers, and data-based decision making The worst part is that the data on almost every part of the pandemic is freely available online and updated daily. For instance, the odds of getting myocarditis from the Pfizer vaccine is something like 1:125000. This is significantly less than the risk of child having a seizure from the MMR vaccine at 1:30000.
- unanswered 5y ago
  Your numbers are being used to lie: You only have to get the MMR vaccine once. But you'll have to get the covid vaccines over and over and over. Just four covid jabs would make these events equally likely. But it's most likely that more than four will be required.
  - freemint 5y ago
    > But you'll have to get the covid vaccines over and over and over. Citation please, my impression was that whether the vast majority needs a third shot ist still not decided but it's possible which is why governments prepare.
  - zhdc1 5y ago
    > Your numbers are being used to lie: You only have to get the MMR vaccine once. Children generally receive two MMR shots. Source: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/public/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/public/index.html
motohagiography 5y ago
I suspect it was my comment, probably flagged for comparing the ID mandates to jim crow laws, but I'd say your response question reduces to, "we are an elite, how do we deal with these ignorant proles?" which is begging the question. The connection between data and policy is mostly fictional, other than it is used to support chosen narratives, and not to illuminate truth. I look at the resistance as a human instinct, where some can convert it to articulated objections and clearly, and others have limited tools, but what they have in common is a clear and united desire. Anyone who knows anything about data (let alone govt) knows that data at very best only loosely informs policy decisions, it does not make them. Leaders may hide behind it, but they ignore it just as often if not moreso, and that these people reject data as censored, cherry picked, fudged, fabricated, is consistent with how policymakers handle it.
artificialLimbs 5y ago
>> There is no logical thinking in their thesis, and every critique is based on the rebuttal of statistics, numbers, and data-based decision making. This is exactly what every person following the religion of scientism was saying when we were spraying kids with DDT, while those in touch with their intuition and insticts knew better.
- camillomiller 5y ago
  Sounds pretty much like a fallacy to me. It is a different time and different age. The stats about mortality from covid and from vaccines are quite different and easily accessible.
  - artificialLimbs 5y ago
    >> 'easily accessible' I'd be surprised if you've looked much into how they're arriving at these statistical calculations.

tomrod 5y ago

I believe it's time to roll up sleeves as a civic duty.

camillomiller 5y ago

Edit: I'm getting downvoted brigade-style for what? This was supposed to be a forum of civil and intellectual discussion, ffs!

zhdc1 5y ago

> There is no logical thinking in their thesis, and every critique is based on the rebuttal of statistics, numbers, and data-based decision making The worst part is that the data on almost every part of the pandemic is freely available online and updated daily. For instance, the odds of getting myocarditis from the Pfizer vaccine is something like 1:125000. This is significantly less than the risk of child having a seizure from the MMR vaccine at 1:30000.

unanswered 5y ago
Your numbers are being used to lie: You only have to get the MMR vaccine once. But you'll have to get the covid vaccines over and over and over. Just four covid jabs would make these events equally likely. But it's most likely that more than four will be required.
- freemint 5y ago
  > But you'll have to get the covid vaccines over and over and over. Citation please, my impression was that whether the vast majority needs a third shot ist still not decided but it's possible which is why governments prepare.
- zhdc1 5y ago
  > Your numbers are being used to lie: You only have to get the MMR vaccine once. Children generally receive two MMR shots. Source: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/public/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/public/index.html

motohagiography 5y ago

I suspect it was my comment, probably flagged for comparing the ID mandates to jim crow laws, but I'd say your response question reduces to, "we are an elite, how do we deal with these ignorant proles?" which is begging the question. The connection between data and policy is mostly fictional, other than it is used to support chosen narratives, and not to illuminate truth. I look at the resistance as a human instinct, where some can convert it to articulated objections and clearly, and others have limited tools, but what they have in common is a clear and united desire. Anyone who knows anything about data (let alone govt) knows that data at very best only loosely informs policy decisions, it does not make them. Leaders may hide behind it, but they ignore it just as often if not moreso, and that these people reject data as censored, cherry picked, fudged, fabricated, is consistent with how policymakers handle it.

artificialLimbs 5y ago

>> There is no logical thinking in their thesis, and every critique is based on the rebuttal of statistics, numbers, and data-based decision making. This is exactly what every person following the religion of scientism was saying when we were spraying kids with DDT, while those in touch with their intuition and insticts knew better.

camillomiller 5y ago
Sounds pretty much like a fallacy to me. It is a different time and different age. The stats about mortality from covid and from vaccines are quite different and easily accessible.
- artificialLimbs 5y ago
  >> 'easily accessible' I'd be surprised if you've looked much into how they're arriving at these statistical calculations.