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Whether or not you agree if there is legal authority for mandates for this vaccine or this pandemic, where does it end? The trajectory we're on is for all peopl

by ctrlp 5y ago

Whether or not you agree if there is legal authority for mandates for this vaccine or this pandemic, where does it end? The trajectory we're on is for all people to be monitored by the State for compliance with the vaccine programs. Israel is already saying 4 shots (and more) will required [0] to participate in that society. Australia, New Zealand, and Canada are quasi-police states [1] and will probably mandate vaccination+boosters soon. The writing on the wall is that the 'booster' is being repackaged as a 'series' of vaccines. The health authorities and pharma are going to modify and approve vaccines for endless mutations. Will these be independently tested? I don't expect so, despite using the novel mRNA platform. The end game is to treat Covid vaccines like annual (or semi-annual) flu vaccines. Moderna is already packaging both together [2]. Except flu vaccine is not mandated (yet). There is a LOT of money to be made in mandatory vaccine mandates. Think how easy it would be to grow rich if everyone had to use your products, you had no competition, and the government indemnified you against any responsibility for harm. It's hard to see how this stops. The pandemic is a gift for technocratic-authoritarians everywhere. Here's a prediction. In a few years, if the people don't stand up against this, the pandemic will not be 'over' politically. Nominally 'free' Western governments will have become de facto CCP-style management firms. We will be required to comply with ongoing health directives from the central authorities for vaccination to prevent further restrictions. Our compliance will be monitored via digital passes (or onerous paper-work for the poor). Our employment and freedom of movement will depend on our compliance. Those who disagree and are foolish enough to say something will find themselves censored (for health disinformation) and fined (or imprisoned [3]). Traveling to see grandma without having gotten the latest booster will risk quarantine. So, if you're pro-mandates, I invite you to come back in a couple of years and ridicule me and this warning if it's wrong (if it hasn't been scrubbed from the internet). I hope you're right! I wonder what you'll say if you're wrong? Maybe post your predictions for posterity. [0] https://www.timesofisrael.com/virus-czar-calls-to-begin-readying-for-eventual-4th-vaccine-dose/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/virus-czar-calls-to-begin-read... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/31/world/australia/new-zealand-covid-lockdown-checkpoints.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/31/world/australia/new-zeala..., https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jun/01/australias-drug-regulator-may-refer-anti-vaccination-facebook-posts-to-federal-police https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jun/01/austr... [2] https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/moderna-developing-single-dose-combination-vaccine-covid-19-flu-2021-09-09/ https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/... [3] https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jun/01/australias-drug-regulator-may-refer-anti-vaccination-facebook-posts-to-federal-police https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jun/01/austr...

Jeema101 5y ago
It ends when half a million+ people per year (in the US anyway) aren't dying of a preventable disease - not to mention probably millions more suffering long term effects. I see a familiar pattern with sentiments like this: showing lots of hand-wringing over civil liberties, but seemingly no concern over all the people who have died and who have been incapacitated. Those people had a right to not be exposed to a deadly virus.
- ctrlp 5y ago
  I also see a familiar pattern with sentiments like yours. There is little to no concern for people whose livelihoods or psychological health were harmed by health policies that prioritize the vulnerable minority over everyone else, including children. Health policy diktats aimed at saving every life will inevitably harm many in subtle and not-so-subtle ways. Will the cumulative harms ever be counted? Not likely as it would destabilize the comfortable narrative many of us rely on to justify our prejudices.
  - vxNsr 5y ago
    I’ve seen arguments made that we’ve lost a significant number of ppl due to suicide, dementia, etc.
    - tomrod 5y ago
      It's possible. We can compare year over year deaths to investigate excess deaths (which is really the best approach to fully appreciate the mortality impact). Such an analysis misses long term side effects like Long COVID, but does capture things like changes to traffic deaths and suicides. The CDC publishes this info.
  - ImPostingOnHN 5y ago
    I don't think I've seen any evidence that there is little to no concern for those things unless you count "not getting your way" as evidence that nobody is concerned just consider the possibility that, that other people consider other things to be more harmful to individuals and society, and thus more important to prioritize when interests compete

by ctrlp 5y ago

Jeema101 5y ago

It ends when half a million+ people per year (in the US anyway) aren't dying of a preventable disease - not to mention probably millions more suffering long term effects. I see a familiar pattern with sentiments like this: showing lots of hand-wringing over civil liberties, but seemingly no concern over all the people who have died and who have been incapacitated. Those people had a right to not be exposed to a deadly virus.

ctrlp 5y ago
I also see a familiar pattern with sentiments like yours. There is little to no concern for people whose livelihoods or psychological health were harmed by health policies that prioritize the vulnerable minority over everyone else, including children. Health policy diktats aimed at saving every life will inevitably harm many in subtle and not-so-subtle ways. Will the cumulative harms ever be counted? Not likely as it would destabilize the comfortable narrative many of us rely on to justify our prejudices.
- vxNsr 5y ago
  I’ve seen arguments made that we’ve lost a significant number of ppl due to suicide, dementia, etc.
  - tomrod 5y ago
    It's possible. We can compare year over year deaths to investigate excess deaths (which is really the best approach to fully appreciate the mortality impact). Such an analysis misses long term side effects like Long COVID, but does capture things like changes to traffic deaths and suicides. The CDC publishes this info.
- ImPostingOnHN 5y ago
  I don't think I've seen any evidence that there is little to no concern for those things unless you count "not getting your way" as evidence that nobody is concerned just consider the possibility that, that other people consider other things to be more harmful to individuals and society, and thus more important to prioritize when interests compete