6 ms·

Interesting that the author focuses on protein rather than calories. If it's protein, and not calories, that are going to be an issue in PRC, I suspect the peo

Interesting that the author focuses on protein rather than calories. If it's protein, and not calories, that are going to be an issue in PRC, I suspect the people in PRC will be ordered by their government to consume chicken instead of pork. one chicken per week per man is plenty to supplant a rice- or wheat-based diet, along with some vegetables. Chicken production can also be scaled rapidly, albeit if done quickly there will probably be outbreaks of avian flu.

lars512 5y ago
Presumably shifting market prices of protein sources will change consumption patterns. But if people are priced out of eating as much meat as they’re used to, it breaks the mental model of continuously improving living standards, which might have political knock on effects.
- msandford 5y ago
  Right, that's been going on in the US for the last 20 years but it's a frog-slowly-boiled situation. Nobody really knows why so many people are unhappy but they are. Imagine if all that had happened over a year or two. The BLM protests would probably look quaint by comparison.
- Factorium 5y ago
  Hence why we've seen the popularisation of fake-meats in the USA.
  - minitoar 5y ago
    I thought this was more a result of increasing health/environmental awareness.
  - yissp 5y ago
    Do you mean that as a counterpoint to the parent? These products seem to generally be targeting wealthier consumers. I wonder if China did face a shortage of animal protein, they could avoid some of the political unrest by marketing plant-based alternatives as being more desirable, like these US companies are trying to do (with reasonable success, it seems).
    - ncmncm 5y ago
      The meat substitutes are made out of soy and various other lately scarce ingredients. Just, a lot less of them than would have been fed to the animal it replaces.
      - nradov 5y ago
        The latest generation of meat substitute products are largely a highly processed form of pea protein.
TomAbel 5y ago
>chickens High-tech chickens are a case study of why self-reliance is so hard https://www.economist.com/china/2020/10/31/high-tech-chickens-are-a-case-study-of-why-self-reliance-is-so-hard https://www.economist.com/china/2020/10/31/high-tech-chicken... (archive)https://archive.is/TKZwr https://archive.is/TKZwr >Pigs https://doomberg.substack.com/p/chinas-achilles-squeal https://doomberg.substack.com/p/chinas-achilles-squeal
ncmncm 5y ago
(s/supplant/supplement/) Calories are generally cheap. Protein is dear. When the ocean ecosystem collapses under the strain of acidification by dissolved CO2, efforts to control access to protein will trigger wars. Meat is non-essential, nutritionally, given beans and B-12, but materially reducing access to it is politically destabilizing.
- i_am_proteus 5y ago
  Ah yes, supplement. PRC is a totalitarian state that has starved its own population in the name of progress in living memory. I suspect they would be fine with doing this again.
  - pjc50 5y ago
    The state might be, the question is whether the public would be fine with it, and what the cost of containing dissent might be in the information age.
    - ncmncm 5y ago
      What online media giveth, pervasive surveillance taketh away.
detritus 5y ago
Chicken is an amazing source of protein, given what range of inputs they can feed on, and how quickly they can be slaughtered after hatching (6-8 weeks, typically). Whilst I've seen plenty of emotive videos over the years showing chickens' capacity for socialisation, empathy and intelligence, I as equally find it hard to have too much sympathy for them in their function as food for humans, given most of them barely make it two months into the world. I say this as someone who, whilst loving her utterly after her birth, had occasional abstract thoughts about how entirely unconscious and parasitic my daughter was for a few months. It got me thinking. Whilst I now find my heart softened utterly by so much more than I did, my heart also hardened when thinking about sentient chickens as food.
- detritus 5y ago
  It's been interesting watching the votes go up and down on this one, haha. I figured it wouldn't be popular. Out of grim interest, I just checked how long it takes for Mealworm to mature. Chickens take less time to grow..

lars512 5y ago

Presumably shifting market prices of protein sources will change consumption patterns. But if people are priced out of eating as much meat as they’re used to, it breaks the mental model of continuously improving living standards, which might have political knock on effects.

msandford 5y ago
Right, that's been going on in the US for the last 20 years but it's a frog-slowly-boiled situation. Nobody really knows why so many people are unhappy but they are. Imagine if all that had happened over a year or two. The BLM protests would probably look quaint by comparison.
Factorium 5y ago
Hence why we've seen the popularisation of fake-meats in the USA.
- minitoar 5y ago
  I thought this was more a result of increasing health/environmental awareness.
- yissp 5y ago
  Do you mean that as a counterpoint to the parent? These products seem to generally be targeting wealthier consumers. I wonder if China did face a shortage of animal protein, they could avoid some of the political unrest by marketing plant-based alternatives as being more desirable, like these US companies are trying to do (with reasonable success, it seems).
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    The meat substitutes are made out of soy and various other lately scarce ingredients. Just, a lot less of them than would have been fed to the animal it replaces.
    - nradov 5y ago
      The latest generation of meat substitute products are largely a highly processed form of pea protein.

TomAbel 5y ago

>chickens High-tech chickens are a case study of why self-reliance is so hard https://www.economist.com/china/2020/10/31/high-tech-chickens-are-a-case-study-of-why-self-reliance-is-so-hard https://www.economist.com/china/2020/10/31/high-tech-chicken... (archive)https://archive.is/TKZwr https://archive.is/TKZwr >Pigs https://doomberg.substack.com/p/chinas-achilles-squeal https://doomberg.substack.com/p/chinas-achilles-squeal

ncmncm 5y ago

(s/supplant/supplement/) Calories are generally cheap. Protein is dear. When the ocean ecosystem collapses under the strain of acidification by dissolved CO2, efforts to control access to protein will trigger wars. Meat is non-essential, nutritionally, given beans and B-12, but materially reducing access to it is politically destabilizing.

i_am_proteus 5y ago
Ah yes, supplement. PRC is a totalitarian state that has starved its own population in the name of progress in living memory. I suspect they would be fine with doing this again.
- pjc50 5y ago
  The state might be, the question is whether the public would be fine with it, and what the cost of containing dissent might be in the information age.
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    What online media giveth, pervasive surveillance taketh away.

detritus 5y ago

Chicken is an amazing source of protein, given what range of inputs they can feed on, and how quickly they can be slaughtered after hatching (6-8 weeks, typically). Whilst I've seen plenty of emotive videos over the years showing chickens' capacity for socialisation, empathy and intelligence, I as equally find it hard to have too much sympathy for them in their function as food for humans, given most of them barely make it two months into the world. I say this as someone who, whilst loving her utterly after her birth, had occasional abstract thoughts about how entirely unconscious and parasitic my daughter was for a few months. It got me thinking. Whilst I now find my heart softened utterly by so much more than I did, my heart also hardened when thinking about sentient chickens as food.

detritus 5y ago
It's been interesting watching the votes go up and down on this one, haha. I figured it wouldn't be popular. Out of grim interest, I just checked how long it takes for Mealworm to mature. Chickens take less time to grow..