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> This summary from her website doesn't make Apple sound all that terrible in my opinion: Looking past her editorializing, the Apple communications she leaked

> This summary from her website doesn't make Apple sound all that terrible in my opinion: Looking past her editorializing, the Apple communications she leaked aren't really unreasonable. She raised concerns about harassment, so Apple started an investigation. She then complains that the investigation was "nonconsensual", despite being the one to raise the concerns. She then requested a second investigation, which Apple started. The part about being placed on administrative leave is particularly confusing, because this article says that she requested to be placed on the administrative leave. Her Tweets are hyper-dramatic. She calls her Employee Relations contacts "Employee Retaliation" and even insinuates that she thinks Apple might assault her at her home after they requested a meeting: > Any bets if I get a literal knock on my physical door from #Apple today? > Hey #Apple, "This feels a little like witness intimidation. I let @NLRB know." Love, Ashley > Clutches panic button & Mace while still laying on floor pondering the brutality of U.S. capitalism... Source: https://twitter.com/ashleygjovik/status/1436080433175818259 https://twitter.com/ashleygjovik/status/1436080433175818259

unityByFreedom 5y ago
Yeah. I think she has real concerns that need to be addressed to make her whole. I'm not sure this is "the world needs to know"-level stuff though. Good on her for speaking her mind anyway. The "open kimono" stuff sounded bad to me (edit: depends on the context [2]). At the same time, she is giving these veiled threats to Apple while an investigation appears to be underway, > .... also makes me wonder what would happen if I shared the incidents [redacted] investigated and said weren't "policy violations" like [redacted] [1] I can see why Apple would want to part ways with that. It's standard for everyone to keep their mouths shut while an investigation is underway. If you don't understand and follow that contract then you're tainting the investigation. [1] https://www.ashleygjovik.com/uploads/1/3/7/0/137008339/published/screen-shot-2021-08-10-at-4-12-30-am_3.png https://www.ashleygjovik.com/uploads/1/3/7/0/137008339/publi... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28478276 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28478276
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  The "open kimono" thing is inexcusable in 2021, but I don't think it's anything more than someone cluelessly using an outdated catchphrase. It was semi-common business lingo in the early 2000s in certain circles: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/open-kimono.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/open-kimono.asp Self-help guru Tim Ferriss even copyrighted the phrase and made a big deal about publicizing a $10,000 seminar in his "Opening the Kimono" event in 2011: https://tim.blog/2011/04/12/opening-the-kimono/ https://tim.blog/2011/04/12/opening-the-kimono/ Then the phrase quickly died, as it should have. Strange to hear an Apple manager using it, but I wouldn't assume they were implying anything or had ill intent.
  - unityByFreedom 5y ago
    > Strange to hear an Apple manager using it, but I wouldn't assume they were implying anything or had ill intent. Yes, I can imagine oblivious men repeating it if they did not realize it could be interpreted sexually. However you do deserve to be called out if you continue using it while feigning ignorance. Your response should simply be, "oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize the implications of this phrase. I'll stop using it." And if you can't do that then HR should get involved. It sounds like that is what was happening. Then she threatened to make her case more widely known and Apple decided, "alright, it's better if you're not employed here while you pursue that."
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - anon9001 5y ago
    This thread is political correctness madness gone wild. The phrase comes from Japanese<->American business relationships in the 70s through 90s. It is not sexist or racist. It literally means providing transparency to internal affairs. > Strange to hear an Apple manager using it, but I wouldn't assume they were implying anything or had ill intent. "Look, I will let you invest a million dollars in Apple if you will sort of open the kimono on Xerox Parc." -- Steve Jobs, Xerox Parc, 1979 Under the Xerox Parc kimono, he found a prototype of the modern computer mouse. Ashley's source for why this is offensive and my source for why it's not are the same (from her screenshot): https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/open-kimono.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/open-kimono.asp Investopedia says the term is "offensive" but the only reason they cite is an NYT article from 1998: > New York Times reporter Stephen Greenhouse became one of the first to draw broad attention to the term when he noted that marketers at Microsoft (MSFT) had embraced it. At the time, he did caution that the use of open kimono may have originally indicated a disrespectful attitude toward the Japanese businessmen who were buying American companies. It wasn't even disrespectful because of race, it was because Japanese businessmen were buying lots of American companies and doing due diligence. Also, kimonos are worn by men, women, and children. In reality, Investopedia is probably labeling it "offensive" for people like me who know it is not offensive, but are unaware that using it could lead to problems.

unityByFreedom 5y ago

Yeah. I think she has real concerns that need to be addressed to make her whole. I'm not sure this is "the world needs to know"-level stuff though. Good on her for speaking her mind anyway. The "open kimono" stuff sounded bad to me (edit: depends on the context [2]). At the same time, she is giving these veiled threats to Apple while an investigation appears to be underway, > .... also makes me wonder what would happen if I shared the incidents [redacted] investigated and said weren't "policy violations" like [redacted] [1] I can see why Apple would want to part ways with that. It's standard for everyone to keep their mouths shut while an investigation is underway. If you don't understand and follow that contract then you're tainting the investigation. [1] https://www.ashleygjovik.com/uploads/1/3/7/0/137008339/published/screen-shot-2021-08-10-at-4-12-30-am_3.png https://www.ashleygjovik.com/uploads/1/3/7/0/137008339/publi... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28478276 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28478276

PragmaticPulp 5y ago
The "open kimono" thing is inexcusable in 2021, but I don't think it's anything more than someone cluelessly using an outdated catchphrase. It was semi-common business lingo in the early 2000s in certain circles: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/open-kimono.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/open-kimono.asp Self-help guru Tim Ferriss even copyrighted the phrase and made a big deal about publicizing a $10,000 seminar in his "Opening the Kimono" event in 2011: https://tim.blog/2011/04/12/opening-the-kimono/ https://tim.blog/2011/04/12/opening-the-kimono/ Then the phrase quickly died, as it should have. Strange to hear an Apple manager using it, but I wouldn't assume they were implying anything or had ill intent.
- unityByFreedom 5y ago
  > Strange to hear an Apple manager using it, but I wouldn't assume they were implying anything or had ill intent. Yes, I can imagine oblivious men repeating it if they did not realize it could be interpreted sexually. However you do deserve to be called out if you continue using it while feigning ignorance. Your response should simply be, "oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize the implications of this phrase. I'll stop using it." And if you can't do that then HR should get involved. It sounds like that is what was happening. Then she threatened to make her case more widely known and Apple decided, "alright, it's better if you're not employed here while you pursue that."
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- anon9001 5y ago
  This thread is political correctness madness gone wild. The phrase comes from Japanese<->American business relationships in the 70s through 90s. It is not sexist or racist. It literally means providing transparency to internal affairs. > Strange to hear an Apple manager using it, but I wouldn't assume they were implying anything or had ill intent. "Look, I will let you invest a million dollars in Apple if you will sort of open the kimono on Xerox Parc." -- Steve Jobs, Xerox Parc, 1979 Under the Xerox Parc kimono, he found a prototype of the modern computer mouse. Ashley's source for why this is offensive and my source for why it's not are the same (from her screenshot): https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/open-kimono.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/open-kimono.asp Investopedia says the term is "offensive" but the only reason they cite is an NYT article from 1998: > New York Times reporter Stephen Greenhouse became one of the first to draw broad attention to the term when he noted that marketers at Microsoft (MSFT) had embraced it. At the time, he did caution that the use of open kimono may have originally indicated a disrespectful attitude toward the Japanese businessmen who were buying American companies. It wasn't even disrespectful because of race, it was because Japanese businessmen were buying lots of American companies and doing due diligence. Also, kimonos are worn by men, women, and children. In reality, Investopedia is probably labeling it "offensive" for people like me who know it is not offensive, but are unaware that using it could lead to problems.