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Andrew Yang to launch a third party

132 points by hncurious 5y ago

bkmn 5y ago
Wouldn’t this be a fourth party? Edit: ah, “third party” is an expression in American politics. Learning something new every day.
- thrill 5y ago
  All the non-two-party parties are called third party. This keeps the two-parties front and center, where they think they belong.
  - jeffreyrogers 5y ago
    The way US elections are run makes it very hard to have anything except two dominant parties. If Yang is successful (extremely unlikely) there will still be a two-party system, it will just be his party and whichever other one still remains (probably the Democrats since they have more institutional support at the moment).
    - thrill 5y ago
      This is the natural consequence of our simple-majority single-ballot system. It so strongly favors the two leading parties that getting them to change it is basically impossible.
    - JoshTriplett 5y ago
      > If Yang is successful (extremely unlikely) there will still be a two-party system, it will just be his party and whichever other one still remains That would still be a massive improvement. Unfortunately, the more likely outcome with our current voting system is to split the vote of whichever party they're aligned more closely with, and cause the other party to win. We desperately need either approval voting or Condorcet voting, so that people can express a meaningful preference for a third party.
- gpm 5y ago
  I'm curious, what is the 3rd party in your scenario? I can see ways to count > 3 (before this announcement), and obviously there are the two competitive parties so that's a way to count, but it's not obvious to me how you got to exactly 3.
  - Kibae 5y ago
    I'm guessing he was talking about the Libertarian Party.
jeffreyrogers 5y ago
Seems like you'd have better luck trying to capture the GOP than start another party. There is a large population of Republican voters that is not really "conservative", but just anti-Democrat. Someone who captured this base while remaining appealing to some moderates/independents would do quite well.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- oxymoran 5y ago
  He wouldn’t be able to capture the GOP endorsing UBI and universal healthcare.
  - Cola 5y ago
    I think UBI and healthcare would be the least of his issues. Trump showed that social conservatism/fiscal liberalism could be a winning formula for GOP voters. I wouldn’t be surprised if some young, socially conservative candidate in 2024/2028 who is willing to cancel debt/fund stimulus/healthcare wins by a landslide.
    - Apocryphon 5y ago
      They could've done that for many election cycles, but the GOP is ultimately in the hands of big business donors and isn't about to do that. Not that the Democrats aren't either, but they are at least offset by unions and similar groups.
    - sterlind 5y ago
      I'm afraid you're right about the GOP and it scares me. If Trump had been a better technocrat, I think it would have been very difficult to unseat him in 2020 and he could have brought the US in a very conservative, adversarial direction by effectively implementing his policies.
  - walshemj 5y ago
    Boris seems to be trying to pivot some aspects of the conservative party that way.
yardie 5y ago
3rd, that would be the Green Party, no? There is also Libertarian, Democratic Socialists, Socialist, and a handful of loca parties that only show up in ballots during election season. I wonder if this will be a true leftist party or simply another milquetoast Democrat-light party.
- krapp 5y ago
  I don't think a country that equates mainstream Democrats with communists has the stomach for actual leftism.
- frankbreetz 5y ago
  Any party that isn't the big two is considered 3rd party. I know Andrew Yang is big on UBI, but I don't think he is super far left, as far as I know, his platform is give everyone UBI and let capitalism do it's thing.
  - akvadrako 5y ago
    He is as far left as the Democracts on most other issues though. Things like climate alarmism, immigration, CRT and gun rights. Though maybe that was just for show when he was running in their party.
- jdavis703 5y ago
  It’s Andrew Yang. It certainly won’t be a leftist party in any traditional sense of the phrase. I expect it to be pro-business, but also support “good government” ideas like streamlined welfare (e.g. all the bastardized forms of UBI that keep popping up.)
notJim 5y ago
Yang has never been my top choice, but I think he's generally a good dude. However a third party could be disastrous for the democrats, who can only just barely win elections due to the current structure of the electorate. Hopefully he will be more strategic than that, however. A third party could be really beneficial in some areas where democrats dominate everything.
- sojournerc 5y ago
  Ranked voting would make this less of an issue, but good luck getting current politicians to support it.
  - jdavis703 5y ago
    The NY Democratic primary was RCV, and Yang still lost.
    - Schiendelman 5y ago
      But because it was RCV, his loss didn’t spoil the election.
      - delfinom 5y ago
        I mean it was a primary....the competitors were all democrats so no real harm done. It's an instant win in NYC for a dem afterwards as long as they don't fuck it up somehow.
    - mindwok 5y ago
      Regardless of whether he lost or not, RCV allows you to vote for who you really want to support without being concerned you may be wasting your vote.
      - Ericson2314 5y ago
        To be a pedant, you should rank those likely to make it to the last round, but with the spots left over (working your way from your last choice up) you can rank whoever you want. Eric Adams won by a smidgen, and yet 15% of ballots were invalid by the last round. Perhaps those 15% gave 0 fucks about Garcia vs Adams, or perhaps they were mistaken about how best to vote. We really need proportional representation, but don't get me wrong IRV (instant-runoff voting) is still better than FPTP.
tptacek 5y ago
Didn't he get absolutely stomped in his last two runs?
- ngokevin 5y ago
  He went from a virtual unknown normal dude to the last six standing the Democratic Presidental primaries, outlasting senators including Kamala Harris. And he made UBI a household idea, a major factor to lobbying for cash relief during the pandemic. He did get stomped in the mayoral run. I followed it closely and it felt as though the media had it out for him.
  - akerl_ 5y ago
    Is UBI a household idea? I’m trying to think of a time I’ve heard somebody bring it up outside of message boards or Twitter threads, and at least in my experience I’m coming up blank.
    - ngokevin 5y ago
      Not that it comes up in conversation often, but people get the idea and it's less far-fetched than it used to sound.
  - xvector 5y ago
    > as though the media had it out for him. I feel like there has been a lot of anti-Asian bias in the media, especially around that time.
    - alphabettsy 5y ago
      It’s not just the media.
11thEarlOfMar 5y ago
I registered as a Democrat to vote for Andrew in the CA primary. I find his view of the state of the USA is much more current and much less clouded by the twisted incentives that drive so many career politicians. He has positions on just about every topic and explains the rationale behind them. It makes me wonder what the narrative against him would be. In the 2020 primaries and election, he wasn't taken seriously by either dems or reps, as if they felt that doing so would confer credibility. He was quashed in the debates in lieu of ratings, and sometimes did quite well. I suppose the question ultimately will be whether his party pull more votes from Democrats or Republicans, rather than whether they'd win any major elections. As a younger entrant, he should be able to speak to younger voters and perhaps over time, grow a meaningful base. He did admirably in 2020 and I am confident he can build.
- UncleOxidant 5y ago
  > I suppose the question ultimately will be whether his party pull more votes from Democrats or Republicans I think it's pretty clear that he'd pull more Dems than Reps. That would be a very bad thing in 2024, so you'll probably see a lot of encouragement from Republicans and an lot of discouragement from Democrats.
  - krapp 5y ago
    The real ultimate question is whether post-Trumpism will unite the Republican Party or result in a schism among Conservatives by 2024.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - benburleson 5y ago
      I'm not sure if it's just a vocal minority, but it sure seems to be the Party of Trump, no longer the Republican Party.
      - 5y ago
CPLX 5y ago
In related news, I will be launching my own version of the NBA, where I am excited to be the starting point guard for the #1 ranked team.
- ngokevin 5y ago
  It's ironic to be mocking this Hacker News, where people every day are launching upstart ideas to take on massive incumbents. Launching your own basketball league isn't even that ridiculous! I could see a basketball league with influencers that's more about the entertainment and characters versus skill level having a chance.
  - perardi 5y ago
    They sure kept trying that for football. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XFL_(2001) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XFL_(2001) And it sure went nowhere.
    - ngokevin 5y ago
      I feel AEW is becoming a contender WWE (owner of XFL) in just a couple years, although it did take like hundreds of millions of dollars.
  - CPLX 5y ago
    A national political party is a large group of people united within a formal organization around specific ideology helmed by leaders who hold the support of that group. A national basketball league is a medium sized group of people who play basketball. As you can see, my plan for a basketball league and Andrew Yang's plan for a political party are facing a similar dilemma.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
wolverine876 5y ago
Whatever Yang does, it will be sensational and attention-getting, regardless of the outcome.
bpodgursky 5y ago
I really dislike Yang's signature UBI push for a number of reasons, but it's hard to deny that he's a good reasonably smart guy who just wants go do good things.
burlesona 5y ago
I’m desperately interested but highly skeptical. A genuine center party would help, but there are many structural reasons why it’s not likely, and those would have to be addressed. There’s a great book about this titled “Breaking the Two-Party Doom Loop.” I highly recommend it.
throw_nbvc1234 5y ago
As soon as this becomes serious, "someone" is going to hire a botnet to spam Andrew Yang's 3rd party's hashtag on twitter and then his 3rd party will get banned. A similar thing will happen on facebook and Youtube. Without social media, there's no way for a 3rd party get truly get off the ground and influence an election. Even if you create new accounts, why should the average person trust a political party that has to constantly create new social media accounts. None of the left leaning media will cover this and yang will be forced to air his concerns on Fox news which will immediately discredit him in the eyes of everyone who only trusts the left-leaning media. And that's the end of Andrew Yang's 3rd party. Whether you agree with Unity2020 or the people behind it (especially now with all the vaccine chaos) the way it got shut down was stunning to me. Even if they were actually behind some of the suspicious traffic, it just seems like such a game-able system if you have the money to spend to disrupt it.
hitpointdrew 5y ago
He should recruit Tulsi Gabbard and Bill Weld, and start something magnificent.
mulderc 5y ago
Yang is not dumb so I have to think there is something more to this than some sort of quixotic attempt at an actual 3rd party. Much better and richer politicians than him have tried that and failed badly.
salimmadjd 5y ago
Yang is underestimating the network effect of the two parties. I thought running for mayor of NY City was kind of odd. His lack of experience really showed after his initial name ID advantage faded away. I feel like he is fighting for relevancy but it's approaching it from a wrong angle. I do understand he is feeling betrayed a bit by the party. He was probably promised (or hinted at) some kind of a position with the Biden admin. Then he had that disastrous loss as a mayor. I'm not sure starting a third party is really a right move for him. He is interesting (was authentic) as a candidate, but quite honesty doesn't have a real national name ID or charisma to pull together a successful third party. At this point, the only person who can reasonably start a third party is probably Donald Trump (not saying he is going to). My point is you need a huge national popular backing. Yang doesn't have that. If anything he is going to destroy the possibility of having a real competitive third party in our country. So, yeah another misstep (IMHO) by Yang.
throwaway34241 5y ago
I like Yang. So much of politics feels like figuring out who to blame for all our problems - is it corporations / immigrants / the rich / the poor / other countries / the government etc. Yang's message about blaming automation / technology might be still be wrong, or at least overly simplified. But it's at least laying the groundwork for taking a problem-solving approach instead of a fight to the death, since it suggests we should take a look at the economic forces that shape the job market instead of trying to punish whichever group is the bad one. Obviously there's tactical issues trying to run as a third party candidate in the US. But Yang certainly is aware of that already, so he must have some angle. Maybe as another comment suggested his party could field candidates for local races that have ranked-choice voting (which includes mayoral races for major cities like NYC). Or he could even participate in the debates and get his message out, but keeping an eye on his poll numbers, so that he could withdraw before the election if it looks like he's just going to spoil the race towards the candidate most-opposite his beliefs.
tenderholdings 5y ago
A Gallup poll from August found that 29% of Americans identified as Democrats, 28% identified as Republican, and 40% as Independent. [https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx] So, more people consider themselves independent than members of either party. If Andrew Yang can create the "Independent Party", perhaps they would get the most votes.
- dsr_ 5y ago
  Americans love to consider themselves independent, but that doesn't mean they all have the same political beliefs or even that they are moderate; for the most part, "independent" means that they will vote mostly for one party but like to occasionally vote for individual candidates that they personally like, regardless of party.
  - N1H1L 5y ago
    Independent mostly means politically unengaged
perardi 5y ago
OK, that’s nice. How do you get on the ballot in every single state for the Presidency? Are you going to run competitive House and Senate races in every single state? What’s your plan of action for getting the debate committees to allow a third-party into the debates if polling isn’t good enough?
- robotresearcher 5y ago
  You don't need to win to influence the agenda for the better.
eli 5y ago
Andrew Yang has a book to sell
DoubleDerper 5y ago
Ranked-choice voting could be make the most meaningfully positive impact on US democracy in decades. Regardless of your politics. More messaging, coverage, and support for ranked-choice voting is necessary, and we should all hope to see more of it in coming months/years.
- spiderice 5y ago
  The fact that every single person in power got elected without ranked choice voting makes me think there is no chance of that ever getting passed. No politician wants to hurt their own job security.
  - dane-pgp 5y ago
    > every single person in power got elected without ranked choice voting Jared Golden would beg to differ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections_in_Maine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_United_States_House_of_Re...
    - spiderice 5y ago
      Ah, who knew. TIL. Thanks
throwawaybchr 5y ago
One party thinks minorities have magic powers, the other party thinks tax cuts have magic powers. Yang thinks giving people $1000 a month will magically solve many problems. It's just different versions of pure silliness.
Apocryphon 5y ago
I've always wondered why the U.S. never had a decently-sized Pirate Party as a third party, unlike many European countries. A tech-focused, liberalish with some libertarian ideas, some outright radical ideas, would very much fit Yang's political aesthetics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party
endisneigh 5y ago
Here's my hot take: as long as voting is not mandatory (with the ability to go to a poll and officially "abstain") all democracies will eventually spoil. The incentive to manipulate with voter suppression is just too high. Look no further than the United States if you're from there. A third party simply accelerates this by fracturing the already abysmal electorate. However mandatory voting isn't sufficient. The abolition of FPTP (winner takes all) is also necessary. Inequality (and not necessarily just income) is only accelerating the flaws in anything other than pure-democracy. TLDR: true democracy will never exist without something like mandatory score/range/star/etc voting. yeah I know the USA isn't a pure democracy. perhaps that's the issue.
allemagne 5y ago
Andrew Yang was smart and self-aware enough of his own political goals and the electoral reality of RCV to endorse Kathryn Garcia near the end of the NYC mayoral primary. I respected that. In FPTP the spoiler effect is not just a bogeyman that the two dominant parties trot out to scare you into voting for them, it's a well-understood mathematical inevitability. Perot led to Clinton. Nader led to Bush II. Any third party in America that reaches the brink of national prominence will be (and has been) counterproductive to its own professed aims. I think what is most relevant to Yang is that this is extremely understood in the hyperpartisan modern environment. See the conservative glee and support for Kanye West's 2020 campaign, and the liberal celebration at rumors that Donald Trump was starting a new political party. Being extremely selective about where to run candidates and focusing on a handful of "non-partisan" issues (good luck) would help a lot. However, Yang's first hurdle will be be swimming upstream against potential allies who will not want to give "the other side" a win. I honestly don't think anyone can win that fight right now.
cratermoon 5y ago
Joining the ranks of all the other well-known and historically important politicians who started a 3rd party in the US.
kadomony 5y ago
Ladies and gentlemen, another example of how Democrats will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Diluting your own party vote is just going to work out swimmingly for you.
diogenescynic 5y ago
Another cult of personality instead of building a lasting movement built on any principle. This will fail.
mrtweetyhack 5y ago
the Communist Party?
MisterBastahrd 5y ago
For a guy who has never amounted to a hill of shit politically, he sure does seem to have deep pockets to keep trying to split the Democratic vote.
powera 5y ago
Very interesting. Apart from the UBI angle this is too political to discuss here. And until specific UBI plans are announced there isn't much to discuss there. My thoughts, in long form: https://yevaud.substack.com/p/open-letter-to-andrew-yang https://yevaud.substack.com/p/open-letter-to-andrew-yang

132 points by hncurious 5y ago

bkmn 5y ago

Wouldn’t this be a fourth party? Edit: ah, “third party” is an expression in American politics. Learning something new every day.

thrill 5y ago
All the non-two-party parties are called third party. This keeps the two-parties front and center, where they think they belong.
- jeffreyrogers 5y ago
  The way US elections are run makes it very hard to have anything except two dominant parties. If Yang is successful (extremely unlikely) there will still be a two-party system, it will just be his party and whichever other one still remains (probably the Democrats since they have more institutional support at the moment).
  - thrill 5y ago
    This is the natural consequence of our simple-majority single-ballot system. It so strongly favors the two leading parties that getting them to change it is basically impossible.
  - JoshTriplett 5y ago
    > If Yang is successful (extremely unlikely) there will still be a two-party system, it will just be his party and whichever other one still remains That would still be a massive improvement. Unfortunately, the more likely outcome with our current voting system is to split the vote of whichever party they're aligned more closely with, and cause the other party to win. We desperately need either approval voting or Condorcet voting, so that people can express a meaningful preference for a third party.
gpm 5y ago
I'm curious, what is the 3rd party in your scenario? I can see ways to count > 3 (before this announcement), and obviously there are the two competitive parties so that's a way to count, but it's not obvious to me how you got to exactly 3.
- Kibae 5y ago
  I'm guessing he was talking about the Libertarian Party.

jeffreyrogers 5y ago

Seems like you'd have better luck trying to capture the GOP than start another party. There is a large population of Republican voters that is not really "conservative", but just anti-Democrat. Someone who captured this base while remaining appealing to some moderates/independents would do quite well.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
oxymoran 5y ago
He wouldn’t be able to capture the GOP endorsing UBI and universal healthcare.
- Cola 5y ago
  I think UBI and healthcare would be the least of his issues. Trump showed that social conservatism/fiscal liberalism could be a winning formula for GOP voters. I wouldn’t be surprised if some young, socially conservative candidate in 2024/2028 who is willing to cancel debt/fund stimulus/healthcare wins by a landslide.
  - Apocryphon 5y ago
    They could've done that for many election cycles, but the GOP is ultimately in the hands of big business donors and isn't about to do that. Not that the Democrats aren't either, but they are at least offset by unions and similar groups.
  - sterlind 5y ago
    I'm afraid you're right about the GOP and it scares me. If Trump had been a better technocrat, I think it would have been very difficult to unseat him in 2020 and he could have brought the US in a very conservative, adversarial direction by effectively implementing his policies.
- walshemj 5y ago
  Boris seems to be trying to pivot some aspects of the conservative party that way.

yardie 5y ago

3rd, that would be the Green Party, no? There is also Libertarian, Democratic Socialists, Socialist, and a handful of loca parties that only show up in ballots during election season. I wonder if this will be a true leftist party or simply another milquetoast Democrat-light party.

krapp 5y ago
I don't think a country that equates mainstream Democrats with communists has the stomach for actual leftism.
frankbreetz 5y ago
Any party that isn't the big two is considered 3rd party. I know Andrew Yang is big on UBI, but I don't think he is super far left, as far as I know, his platform is give everyone UBI and let capitalism do it's thing.
- akvadrako 5y ago
  He is as far left as the Democracts on most other issues though. Things like climate alarmism, immigration, CRT and gun rights. Though maybe that was just for show when he was running in their party.
jdavis703 5y ago
It’s Andrew Yang. It certainly won’t be a leftist party in any traditional sense of the phrase. I expect it to be pro-business, but also support “good government” ideas like streamlined welfare (e.g. all the bastardized forms of UBI that keep popping up.)

notJim 5y ago

Yang has never been my top choice, but I think he's generally a good dude. However a third party could be disastrous for the democrats, who can only just barely win elections due to the current structure of the electorate. Hopefully he will be more strategic than that, however. A third party could be really beneficial in some areas where democrats dominate everything.

sojournerc 5y ago
Ranked voting would make this less of an issue, but good luck getting current politicians to support it.
- jdavis703 5y ago
  The NY Democratic primary was RCV, and Yang still lost.
  - Schiendelman 5y ago
    But because it was RCV, his loss didn’t spoil the election.
    - delfinom 5y ago
      I mean it was a primary....the competitors were all democrats so no real harm done. It's an instant win in NYC for a dem afterwards as long as they don't fuck it up somehow.
  - mindwok 5y ago
    Regardless of whether he lost or not, RCV allows you to vote for who you really want to support without being concerned you may be wasting your vote.
    - Ericson2314 5y ago
      To be a pedant, you should rank those likely to make it to the last round, but with the spots left over (working your way from your last choice up) you can rank whoever you want. Eric Adams won by a smidgen, and yet 15% of ballots were invalid by the last round. Perhaps those 15% gave 0 fucks about Garcia vs Adams, or perhaps they were mistaken about how best to vote. We really need proportional representation, but don't get me wrong IRV (instant-runoff voting) is still better than FPTP.

tptacek 5y ago

Didn't he get absolutely stomped in his last two runs?

ngokevin 5y ago
He went from a virtual unknown normal dude to the last six standing the Democratic Presidental primaries, outlasting senators including Kamala Harris. And he made UBI a household idea, a major factor to lobbying for cash relief during the pandemic. He did get stomped in the mayoral run. I followed it closely and it felt as though the media had it out for him.
- akerl_ 5y ago
  Is UBI a household idea? I’m trying to think of a time I’ve heard somebody bring it up outside of message boards or Twitter threads, and at least in my experience I’m coming up blank.
  - ngokevin 5y ago
    Not that it comes up in conversation often, but people get the idea and it's less far-fetched than it used to sound.
- xvector 5y ago
  > as though the media had it out for him. I feel like there has been a lot of anti-Asian bias in the media, especially around that time.
  - alphabettsy 5y ago
    It’s not just the media.

11thEarlOfMar 5y ago

I registered as a Democrat to vote for Andrew in the CA primary. I find his view of the state of the USA is much more current and much less clouded by the twisted incentives that drive so many career politicians. He has positions on just about every topic and explains the rationale behind them. It makes me wonder what the narrative against him would be. In the 2020 primaries and election, he wasn't taken seriously by either dems or reps, as if they felt that doing so would confer credibility. He was quashed in the debates in lieu of ratings, and sometimes did quite well. I suppose the question ultimately will be whether his party pull more votes from Democrats or Republicans, rather than whether they'd win any major elections. As a younger entrant, he should be able to speak to younger voters and perhaps over time, grow a meaningful base. He did admirably in 2020 and I am confident he can build.

UncleOxidant 5y ago
> I suppose the question ultimately will be whether his party pull more votes from Democrats or Republicans I think it's pretty clear that he'd pull more Dems than Reps. That would be a very bad thing in 2024, so you'll probably see a lot of encouragement from Republicans and an lot of discouragement from Democrats.
- krapp 5y ago
  The real ultimate question is whether post-Trumpism will unite the Republican Party or result in a schism among Conservatives by 2024.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - benburleson 5y ago
    I'm not sure if it's just a vocal minority, but it sure seems to be the Party of Trump, no longer the Republican Party.
    - 5y ago

CPLX 5y ago

In related news, I will be launching my own version of the NBA, where I am excited to be the starting point guard for the #1 ranked team.

ngokevin 5y ago
It's ironic to be mocking this Hacker News, where people every day are launching upstart ideas to take on massive incumbents. Launching your own basketball league isn't even that ridiculous! I could see a basketball league with influencers that's more about the entertainment and characters versus skill level having a chance.
- perardi 5y ago
  They sure kept trying that for football. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XFL_(2001) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XFL_(2001) And it sure went nowhere.
  - ngokevin 5y ago
    I feel AEW is becoming a contender WWE (owner of XFL) in just a couple years, although it did take like hundreds of millions of dollars.
- CPLX 5y ago
  A national political party is a large group of people united within a formal organization around specific ideology helmed by leaders who hold the support of that group. A national basketball league is a medium sized group of people who play basketball. As you can see, my plan for a basketball league and Andrew Yang's plan for a political party are facing a similar dilemma.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

wolverine876 5y ago

Whatever Yang does, it will be sensational and attention-getting, regardless of the outcome.

bpodgursky 5y ago

I really dislike Yang's signature UBI push for a number of reasons, but it's hard to deny that he's a good reasonably smart guy who just wants go do good things.

burlesona 5y ago

I’m desperately interested but highly skeptical. A genuine center party would help, but there are many structural reasons why it’s not likely, and those would have to be addressed. There’s a great book about this titled “Breaking the Two-Party Doom Loop.” I highly recommend it.

throw_nbvc1234 5y ago

As soon as this becomes serious, "someone" is going to hire a botnet to spam Andrew Yang's 3rd party's hashtag on twitter and then his 3rd party will get banned. A similar thing will happen on facebook and Youtube. Without social media, there's no way for a 3rd party get truly get off the ground and influence an election. Even if you create new accounts, why should the average person trust a political party that has to constantly create new social media accounts. None of the left leaning media will cover this and yang will be forced to air his concerns on Fox news which will immediately discredit him in the eyes of everyone who only trusts the left-leaning media. And that's the end of Andrew Yang's 3rd party. Whether you agree with Unity2020 or the people behind it (especially now with all the vaccine chaos) the way it got shut down was stunning to me. Even if they were actually behind some of the suspicious traffic, it just seems like such a game-able system if you have the money to spend to disrupt it.

hitpointdrew 5y ago

He should recruit Tulsi Gabbard and Bill Weld, and start something magnificent.

mulderc 5y ago

Yang is not dumb so I have to think there is something more to this than some sort of quixotic attempt at an actual 3rd party. Much better and richer politicians than him have tried that and failed badly.

salimmadjd 5y ago

Yang is underestimating the network effect of the two parties. I thought running for mayor of NY City was kind of odd. His lack of experience really showed after his initial name ID advantage faded away. I feel like he is fighting for relevancy but it's approaching it from a wrong angle. I do understand he is feeling betrayed a bit by the party. He was probably promised (or hinted at) some kind of a position with the Biden admin. Then he had that disastrous loss as a mayor. I'm not sure starting a third party is really a right move for him. He is interesting (was authentic) as a candidate, but quite honesty doesn't have a real national name ID or charisma to pull together a successful third party. At this point, the only person who can reasonably start a third party is probably Donald Trump (not saying he is going to). My point is you need a huge national popular backing. Yang doesn't have that. If anything he is going to destroy the possibility of having a real competitive third party in our country. So, yeah another misstep (IMHO) by Yang.

throwaway34241 5y ago

I like Yang. So much of politics feels like figuring out who to blame for all our problems - is it corporations / immigrants / the rich / the poor / other countries / the government etc. Yang's message about blaming automation / technology might be still be wrong, or at least overly simplified. But it's at least laying the groundwork for taking a problem-solving approach instead of a fight to the death, since it suggests we should take a look at the economic forces that shape the job market instead of trying to punish whichever group is the bad one. Obviously there's tactical issues trying to run as a third party candidate in the US. But Yang certainly is aware of that already, so he must have some angle. Maybe as another comment suggested his party could field candidates for local races that have ranked-choice voting (which includes mayoral races for major cities like NYC). Or he could even participate in the debates and get his message out, but keeping an eye on his poll numbers, so that he could withdraw before the election if it looks like he's just going to spoil the race towards the candidate most-opposite his beliefs.

tenderholdings 5y ago

A Gallup poll from August found that 29% of Americans identified as Democrats, 28% identified as Republican, and 40% as Independent. [https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx] So, more people consider themselves independent than members of either party. If Andrew Yang can create the "Independent Party", perhaps they would get the most votes.

dsr_ 5y ago
Americans love to consider themselves independent, but that doesn't mean they all have the same political beliefs or even that they are moderate; for the most part, "independent" means that they will vote mostly for one party but like to occasionally vote for individual candidates that they personally like, regardless of party.
- N1H1L 5y ago
  Independent mostly means politically unengaged

perardi 5y ago

OK, that’s nice. How do you get on the ballot in every single state for the Presidency? Are you going to run competitive House and Senate races in every single state? What’s your plan of action for getting the debate committees to allow a third-party into the debates if polling isn’t good enough?

robotresearcher 5y ago
You don't need to win to influence the agenda for the better.

eli 5y ago

Andrew Yang has a book to sell

DoubleDerper 5y ago

Ranked-choice voting could be make the most meaningfully positive impact on US democracy in decades. Regardless of your politics. More messaging, coverage, and support for ranked-choice voting is necessary, and we should all hope to see more of it in coming months/years.

spiderice 5y ago
The fact that every single person in power got elected without ranked choice voting makes me think there is no chance of that ever getting passed. No politician wants to hurt their own job security.
- dane-pgp 5y ago
  > every single person in power got elected without ranked choice voting Jared Golden would beg to differ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections_in_Maine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_United_States_House_of_Re...
  - spiderice 5y ago
    Ah, who knew. TIL. Thanks

throwawaybchr 5y ago

One party thinks minorities have magic powers, the other party thinks tax cuts have magic powers. Yang thinks giving people $1000 a month will magically solve many problems. It's just different versions of pure silliness.

Apocryphon 5y ago

I've always wondered why the U.S. never had a decently-sized Pirate Party as a third party, unlike many European countries. A tech-focused, liberalish with some libertarian ideas, some outright radical ideas, would very much fit Yang's political aesthetics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party

endisneigh 5y ago

Here's my hot take: as long as voting is not mandatory (with the ability to go to a poll and officially "abstain") all democracies will eventually spoil. The incentive to manipulate with voter suppression is just too high. Look no further than the United States if you're from there. A third party simply accelerates this by fracturing the already abysmal electorate. However mandatory voting isn't sufficient. The abolition of FPTP (winner takes all) is also necessary. Inequality (and not necessarily just income) is only accelerating the flaws in anything other than pure-democracy. TLDR: true democracy will never exist without something like mandatory score/range/star/etc voting. yeah I know the USA isn't a pure democracy. perhaps that's the issue.

allemagne 5y ago

Andrew Yang was smart and self-aware enough of his own political goals and the electoral reality of RCV to endorse Kathryn Garcia near the end of the NYC mayoral primary. I respected that. In FPTP the spoiler effect is not just a bogeyman that the two dominant parties trot out to scare you into voting for them, it's a well-understood mathematical inevitability. Perot led to Clinton. Nader led to Bush II. Any third party in America that reaches the brink of national prominence will be (and has been) counterproductive to its own professed aims. I think what is most relevant to Yang is that this is extremely understood in the hyperpartisan modern environment. See the conservative glee and support for Kanye West's 2020 campaign, and the liberal celebration at rumors that Donald Trump was starting a new political party. Being extremely selective about where to run candidates and focusing on a handful of "non-partisan" issues (good luck) would help a lot. However, Yang's first hurdle will be be swimming upstream against potential allies who will not want to give "the other side" a win. I honestly don't think anyone can win that fight right now.

cratermoon 5y ago

Joining the ranks of all the other well-known and historically important politicians who started a 3rd party in the US.

kadomony 5y ago

Ladies and gentlemen, another example of how Democrats will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Diluting your own party vote is just going to work out swimmingly for you.

diogenescynic 5y ago

Another cult of personality instead of building a lasting movement built on any principle. This will fail.

mrtweetyhack 5y ago

the Communist Party?

MisterBastahrd 5y ago

For a guy who has never amounted to a hill of shit politically, he sure does seem to have deep pockets to keep trying to split the Democratic vote.

powera 5y ago

Very interesting. Apart from the UBI angle this is too political to discuss here. And until specific UBI plans are announced there isn't much to discuss there. My thoughts, in long form: https://yevaud.substack.com/p/open-letter-to-andrew-yang https://yevaud.substack.com/p/open-letter-to-andrew-yang