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Well, you brought up hospital space availability as the problem, not culpability for spreading it. If we're back to talking about folks spreading it, look at th

Well, you brought up hospital space availability as the problem, not culpability for spreading it. If we're back to talking about folks spreading it, look at the fact that the vaccine doesn't prevent spread so why are the control freaks in society trying to force this on the rest of us? Sorry, the rest of us are not going along with it just because you think it's a good idea.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
You are free to make your own choices within the bounds government policy. If that means those who choose not to vaccinate lose their jobs and are ineligible for unemployment insurance, I think that’s reasonable during a public health crisis. Even if vaccination did not reduce transmission rate, it increases survival rate in the event of infection, reducing healthcare system load. If you make a choice to unnecessarily burden a strained system, do not be surprised when that system sheds load in ways you did not expect (crisis standards of care, ie rationing [1] [2] [3]). I am exhausted that people who share your opinion are dragging the pandemic out for whatever illogical reasoning justifies the beliefs and behavior. Your rights end where someone else’s begin, but apparently these people don’t believe their rights end anywhere, regardless of the harm they cause. [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/12/09/944379919/new-data-reveal-which-hospitals-are-dangerously-full-is-yours https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/12/09/9443799... [2] https://www.boisestatepublicradio.org/news/2021-09-07/idaho-activates-crisis-standards-in-north-idaho https://www.boisestatepublicradio.org/news/2021-09-07/idaho-... [3] https://www.doh.wa.gov/Newsroom/Articles/ID/2916/Statement-on-hospital-capacity-and-crisis-standards-of-care https://www.doh.wa.gov/Newsroom/Articles/ID/2916/Statement-o...
- furgooswft13 5y ago
  > You are free to make your own choices within the bounds government policy. You are free to make your own choices in your prison cell. > Even if vaccination did not reduce transmission rate, it increases survival rate in the event of infection Taking away ones livelihood is a great way to increase survival and improve health. > I am exhausted Authoritarianism, fascism, and doublespeak are all very exhausting indeed.
- walterbell 5y ago
  > reducing healthcare system load Un-scientific mandates affect the supply of healthcare workers, https://tamicam.substack.com/p/are-government-vaccine-mandates-creating https://tamicam.substack.com/p/are-government-vaccine-mandat... > It's ironic that the same camp currently blaming persons with acquired (Gold standard) immunity from prior infection of Covid ... for overwhelming medical systems, when by ignoring the actual immunity status of a person, they are undermining the entire medical system? The crisis they are creating goes against every basic principle of Immunology. > Essential frontline medical workers last year are highly likely to have already been exposed to Covid at one point, so why does no one simply ask for their immune status, instead of “ Vaccine - or no job”? The vaccine does not stop transmission of the virus, as we know. Why are we instead firing all the workers who may not even have any need for the Jab at all, and aren’t willing to jeopardize their own health by taking it?
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    I’d argue you don’t want healthcare workers who don’t believe in vaccination practicing healthcare (90-95% of doctors are vaccinated, for comparison, versus closer to 40-50% for nurses). This is filtering out workers who should be filtered out of the healthcare labor pool, workers who would be in close proximity to patients. They’ve received other vaccinations to work [1]. They’ve been educated how vaccines work. There is no excuse for being unvaccinated as a healthcare professional. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/phlp/publications/topic/vaccinationlaws.html https://www.cdc.gov/phlp/publications/topic/vaccinationlaws....
    - walterbell 5y ago
      Many healthcare workers know the difference between gold-standard natural immunity, a sterilizing vaccine and non-sterilizing vaccine. It's a false dichotomy to reduce the world to vaccinated/unvaccinated, when vaccination neither stops transmission nor infection. The most-protected group of people, who pose the least risk to other humans or healthcare systems, are the Covid-recovered, whether vaccinated or unvaccinated.
      - 5y ago
- concordDance 5y ago
  If people had to pay for their own healthcare (thus not burdening public healthcare), should they then be allowed to not take the vaccine? Also, what's your view on government mandated exercise?
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    You would have to pay for not only your healthcare, but any civil damages to someone who was harmed or had a loss of life because you were occupying a bed they needed for a non COVID related malady [1]. Exercise should be prescribed, but not mandated. The overweight and morbidly obese are not overloading medical systems, so it is less of a pressing concern. [1] https://abc7.com/us-army-veteran-daniel-wilkinson-michelle-puget-man-dies-waiting-icu/10987517/ https://abc7.com/us-army-veteran-daniel-wilkinson-michelle-p... (US Army vet's mother demands change after son dies of non-COVID illness while waiting for ICU bed)
- captainredbeard 5y ago
  > I am exhausted that people who share your opinion Good, I'm wearing you out. Can't wait for your side to fold.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    > I am exhausted that people who share your opinion are dragging the pandemic out for whatever illogical reasoning justifies the beliefs and behavior. You didn’t paste the whole quote. I guess this is going to be a long pandemic.
    - captainredbeard 5y ago
      Compliance will not end tyranny. This is about power.

toomuchtodo 5y ago

You are free to make your own choices within the bounds government policy. If that means those who choose not to vaccinate lose their jobs and are ineligible for unemployment insurance, I think that’s reasonable during a public health crisis. Even if vaccination did not reduce transmission rate, it increases survival rate in the event of infection, reducing healthcare system load. If you make a choice to unnecessarily burden a strained system, do not be surprised when that system sheds load in ways you did not expect (crisis standards of care, ie rationing [1] [2] [3]). I am exhausted that people who share your opinion are dragging the pandemic out for whatever illogical reasoning justifies the beliefs and behavior. Your rights end where someone else’s begin, but apparently these people don’t believe their rights end anywhere, regardless of the harm they cause. [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/12/09/944379919/new-data-reveal-which-hospitals-are-dangerously-full-is-yours https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/12/09/9443799... [2] https://www.boisestatepublicradio.org/news/2021-09-07/idaho-activates-crisis-standards-in-north-idaho https://www.boisestatepublicradio.org/news/2021-09-07/idaho-... [3] https://www.doh.wa.gov/Newsroom/Articles/ID/2916/Statement-on-hospital-capacity-and-crisis-standards-of-care https://www.doh.wa.gov/Newsroom/Articles/ID/2916/Statement-o...

furgooswft13 5y ago
> You are free to make your own choices within the bounds government policy. You are free to make your own choices in your prison cell. > Even if vaccination did not reduce transmission rate, it increases survival rate in the event of infection Taking away ones livelihood is a great way to increase survival and improve health. > I am exhausted Authoritarianism, fascism, and doublespeak are all very exhausting indeed.
walterbell 5y ago
> reducing healthcare system load Un-scientific mandates affect the supply of healthcare workers, https://tamicam.substack.com/p/are-government-vaccine-mandates-creating https://tamicam.substack.com/p/are-government-vaccine-mandat... > It's ironic that the same camp currently blaming persons with acquired (Gold standard) immunity from prior infection of Covid ... for overwhelming medical systems, when by ignoring the actual immunity status of a person, they are undermining the entire medical system? The crisis they are creating goes against every basic principle of Immunology. > Essential frontline medical workers last year are highly likely to have already been exposed to Covid at one point, so why does no one simply ask for their immune status, instead of “ Vaccine - or no job”? The vaccine does not stop transmission of the virus, as we know. Why are we instead firing all the workers who may not even have any need for the Jab at all, and aren’t willing to jeopardize their own health by taking it?
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  I’d argue you don’t want healthcare workers who don’t believe in vaccination practicing healthcare (90-95% of doctors are vaccinated, for comparison, versus closer to 40-50% for nurses). This is filtering out workers who should be filtered out of the healthcare labor pool, workers who would be in close proximity to patients. They’ve received other vaccinations to work [1]. They’ve been educated how vaccines work. There is no excuse for being unvaccinated as a healthcare professional. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/phlp/publications/topic/vaccinationlaws.html https://www.cdc.gov/phlp/publications/topic/vaccinationlaws....
  - walterbell 5y ago
    Many healthcare workers know the difference between gold-standard natural immunity, a sterilizing vaccine and non-sterilizing vaccine. It's a false dichotomy to reduce the world to vaccinated/unvaccinated, when vaccination neither stops transmission nor infection. The most-protected group of people, who pose the least risk to other humans or healthcare systems, are the Covid-recovered, whether vaccinated or unvaccinated.
    - 5y ago
concordDance 5y ago
If people had to pay for their own healthcare (thus not burdening public healthcare), should they then be allowed to not take the vaccine? Also, what's your view on government mandated exercise?
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  You would have to pay for not only your healthcare, but any civil damages to someone who was harmed or had a loss of life because you were occupying a bed they needed for a non COVID related malady [1]. Exercise should be prescribed, but not mandated. The overweight and morbidly obese are not overloading medical systems, so it is less of a pressing concern. [1] https://abc7.com/us-army-veteran-daniel-wilkinson-michelle-puget-man-dies-waiting-icu/10987517/ https://abc7.com/us-army-veteran-daniel-wilkinson-michelle-p... (US Army vet's mother demands change after son dies of non-COVID illness while waiting for ICU bed)
captainredbeard 5y ago
> I am exhausted that people who share your opinion Good, I'm wearing you out. Can't wait for your side to fold.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  > I am exhausted that people who share your opinion are dragging the pandemic out for whatever illogical reasoning justifies the beliefs and behavior. You didn’t paste the whole quote. I guess this is going to be a long pandemic.
  - captainredbeard 5y ago
    Compliance will not end tyranny. This is about power.