4 ms·

USA: All government employees will be vaccinated against Covid-19

25 points by novaRom 5y ago

natvert 5y ago
The people who are for forcing everyone else to take the vaccine don't understand how strongly people's beliefs (including their own) are held. What if the anti-vaxers we're forcing everyone to not get the vaccine or be fired? Requirements such as the vaccine mandate will not have the intended effect, but perhaps even the opposite. Want more people to quit their jobs? Requiring everyone to put something in their bodies they don't want there is a great way to do it!
- johnisgood 5y ago
  Health care workers here must get vaccinated against COVID-19. What happened is LOTS of nurses and so forth quitting their job. Not enough nurses was already a huge issue, now it is way worse.
  - Mountain_Skies 5y ago
    Seems like every hospital administrator assumed that they'd be able to rely on hiring a bunch of travel nurses to cover the gap but then discovered every other hospital administrator in the country had the same idea.
  - newacct583 5y ago
    I don't know where "here" is but while health care workers are hard to staff there's no particular vaccine effect I'm aware of. Cite?
- Mountain_Skies 5y ago
  Maybe that's what they want. Then they can blame those who haven't taken the shots for the labor shortage crisis that currently is being blamed mainly on government unemployment benefits and other assistance programs.
- gpapilion 5y ago
  States already have robust vaccine requirements for public education. As a society we have decided we can do this for a slew of childhood diseases, but we've for some reason drawn the line on things like the flu vaccine. Basically the only reason we don't have these for adults is because you had requirements as a child to be vaccinated.
  - turdferguson 5y ago
    Yea, childhood diseases that require one single vaccine or a series of boosters that have been thoroughly tested and vetted for decades. This vaccine is not equivalent to those vaccines. You can’t eradicate Covid the same way you can with smallpox or polio. It’s not the same at all.
    - Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
      The scenarios are in fact very similar. Perhaps you should learn about the antivaxxers of yore. https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/long-view-ye-olde-anti-vaxxers https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/long-view-ye-olde-anti-vax...
      - mikem170 5y ago
        Maybe not a good enough job was done explaining and educating people on the reasons, risks, and odds. Both then and now. It seems like it would be better to convince people than to try to force them. Many don't take kindly to being forced. And if you can't convince them, perhaps there's not enough reason to force them.
        Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
        The needs of the many, those at greater risk of death and disability as a consequence of COVID and the strained hospitals failing to keep up with the volume of patients, outweigh the minute risks a covid vaccine poses to any generic individual. Anyone still on the fence is willfully ignorant and has likely drank far too much of the antivax koolaid.
- newacct583 5y ago
  > The people who are for forcing everyone else to take the vaccine don't understand how strongly people's beliefs (including their own) are held. Interestingly that's not borne out by polling. Very, very few people cop to being unvaccinated for principled reasons. Almost all the unvaccinated are simply unreached -- they live in an environment where "everyone" is unvaccinated and no one is telling them to do it. So they never called to make the appointment because it seemed weird. Well, now someone is telling them to do it.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  I am vaccinated, but the paternalism of mandates and passes almost ensures I will never take any booster or share health info when I don't have to. These people need to be told 'no' in no uncertain terms for them to understand, otherwise this will only escalate. You can enforce any behavior with a security argument and I think Covid is still a bad justification for many measures we see today. There are also vaccinated regions where cases are rising again, much more so than before even. Everyone that wanted to get vaccinated got a chance to do so, so any rules should be taken back. Those still in danger because they cannot get vaccinated have to deal with the risk themselves. That is manageable if you abdicate of some things, but it risk isn't large enough to restrict others.
bobbytit 5y ago
Allowance must be made for those with natural immunity.
- criticaltinker 5y ago
  I agree, why is this conspicuously missing in rhetoric from the US government? Other countries recognize that immunity acquired through previous infection is at least as protective as vaccination. This is well established in the scientific literature and should not be a controversial point.
  - bobbytit 5y ago
    It is the same here in Australia but we are being forced to use vaccine passports. Our doctors are threatened with $20000 fines if they do a serology test to look for covid antibodies.
    - jimmydorry 5y ago
      This is true, but also not the whole story, from my cursorary Googling. (I do not agree with their stance, but I can see why using such tests to "clear" people as non-infectious would be a problem.) >The Royal College of Pathologists of Australasia on Wednesday warned the tests had a “fundamental limitation” because antibodies could take up to 12 days to develop, long after a person becomes infectious. >Now, two states have used emergency powers to prohibit anyone from using a point-of-care serological test as an acute illness diagnostic tool. > In WA, GPs who offer the tests can be fined up to $20,000, while companies face fines of up to $100,000 under the state’s Public Health Act. The WA Department of Health said they made the declaration because of concerns about the “serious limitations” of the tests, which offered an “unacceptable risk” of community transmission due to false negatives.
    - smallmouth 5y ago
      Interesting. This should indicate to a reasonable person that something far more nefarious is afoot. I wish Australians well and hope they can defeat this tyranny.
smallmouth 5y ago
Remember, it's your body, your choice. If your employer is threatening you with termination and you do not feel safe getting the covid injection, then don't resign, let the employer formally terminate your employment. Retain all communications with your employer and keep detailed notes. This is not going to end well unfortunately.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  This isn't just true for the US and many countries with unemployment benefits require you not to quit. You have to get fired, you might even have rights to compensations for that depending on location.

25 points by novaRom 5y ago

The people who are for forcing everyone else to take the vaccine don't understand how strongly people's beliefs (including their own) are held. What if the anti-vaxers we're forcing everyone to not get the vaccine or be fired? Requirements such as the vaccine mandate will not have the intended effect, but perhaps even the opposite. Want more people to quit their jobs? Requiring everyone to put something in their bodies they don't want there is a great way to do it!

johnisgood 5y ago
Health care workers here must get vaccinated against COVID-19. What happened is LOTS of nurses and so forth quitting their job. Not enough nurses was already a huge issue, now it is way worse.
- Mountain_Skies 5y ago
  Seems like every hospital administrator assumed that they'd be able to rely on hiring a bunch of travel nurses to cover the gap but then discovered every other hospital administrator in the country had the same idea.
- newacct583 5y ago
  I don't know where "here" is but while health care workers are hard to staff there's no particular vaccine effect I'm aware of. Cite?
Mountain_Skies 5y ago
Maybe that's what they want. Then they can blame those who haven't taken the shots for the labor shortage crisis that currently is being blamed mainly on government unemployment benefits and other assistance programs.
gpapilion 5y ago
States already have robust vaccine requirements for public education. As a society we have decided we can do this for a slew of childhood diseases, but we've for some reason drawn the line on things like the flu vaccine. Basically the only reason we don't have these for adults is because you had requirements as a child to be vaccinated.
- turdferguson 5y ago
  Yea, childhood diseases that require one single vaccine or a series of boosters that have been thoroughly tested and vetted for decades. This vaccine is not equivalent to those vaccines. You can’t eradicate Covid the same way you can with smallpox or polio. It’s not the same at all.
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
    The scenarios are in fact very similar. Perhaps you should learn about the antivaxxers of yore. https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/long-view-ye-olde-anti-vaxxers https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/long-view-ye-olde-anti-vax...
    - mikem170 5y ago
      Maybe not a good enough job was done explaining and educating people on the reasons, risks, and odds. Both then and now. It seems like it would be better to convince people than to try to force them. Many don't take kindly to being forced. And if you can't convince them, perhaps there's not enough reason to force them.
      - Red_Leaves_Flyy 5y ago
        The needs of the many, those at greater risk of death and disability as a consequence of COVID and the strained hospitals failing to keep up with the volume of patients, outweigh the minute risks a covid vaccine poses to any generic individual. Anyone still on the fence is willfully ignorant and has likely drank far too much of the antivax koolaid.
newacct583 5y ago
> The people who are for forcing everyone else to take the vaccine don't understand how strongly people's beliefs (including their own) are held. Interestingly that's not borne out by polling. Very, very few people cop to being unvaccinated for principled reasons. Almost all the unvaccinated are simply unreached -- they live in an environment where "everyone" is unvaccinated and no one is telling them to do it. So they never called to make the appointment because it seemed weird. Well, now someone is telling them to do it.
raxxorrax 5y ago
I am vaccinated, but the paternalism of mandates and passes almost ensures I will never take any booster or share health info when I don't have to. These people need to be told 'no' in no uncertain terms for them to understand, otherwise this will only escalate. You can enforce any behavior with a security argument and I think Covid is still a bad justification for many measures we see today. There are also vaccinated regions where cases are rising again, much more so than before even. Everyone that wanted to get vaccinated got a chance to do so, so any rules should be taken back. Those still in danger because they cannot get vaccinated have to deal with the risk themselves. That is manageable if you abdicate of some things, but it risk isn't large enough to restrict others.

bobbytit 5y ago

Allowance must be made for those with natural immunity.

criticaltinker 5y ago
I agree, why is this conspicuously missing in rhetoric from the US government? Other countries recognize that immunity acquired through previous infection is at least as protective as vaccination. This is well established in the scientific literature and should not be a controversial point.
- bobbytit 5y ago
  It is the same here in Australia but we are being forced to use vaccine passports. Our doctors are threatened with $20000 fines if they do a serology test to look for covid antibodies.
  - jimmydorry 5y ago
    This is true, but also not the whole story, from my cursorary Googling. (I do not agree with their stance, but I can see why using such tests to "clear" people as non-infectious would be a problem.) >The Royal College of Pathologists of Australasia on Wednesday warned the tests had a “fundamental limitation” because antibodies could take up to 12 days to develop, long after a person becomes infectious. >Now, two states have used emergency powers to prohibit anyone from using a point-of-care serological test as an acute illness diagnostic tool. > In WA, GPs who offer the tests can be fined up to $20,000, while companies face fines of up to $100,000 under the state’s Public Health Act. The WA Department of Health said they made the declaration because of concerns about the “serious limitations” of the tests, which offered an “unacceptable risk” of community transmission due to false negatives.
  - smallmouth 5y ago
    Interesting. This should indicate to a reasonable person that something far more nefarious is afoot. I wish Australians well and hope they can defeat this tyranny.

smallmouth 5y ago

Remember, it's your body, your choice. If your employer is threatening you with termination and you do not feel safe getting the covid injection, then don't resign, let the employer formally terminate your employment. Retain all communications with your employer and keep detailed notes. This is not going to end well unfortunately.

raxxorrax 5y ago
This isn't just true for the US and many countries with unemployment benefits require you not to quit. You have to get fired, you might even have rights to compensations for that depending on location.