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> OSHA will issue an Emergency Temporary > Standard (ETS) to implement this requirement Is this "temporary" in the same way that the PATRIOT act and our inva

> OSHA will issue an Emergency Temporary > Standard (ETS) to implement this requirement Is this "temporary" in the same way that the PATRIOT act and our invasion of Afghanistan in 2001 were "temporary"? Well, I guess one should never let a good crisis go to waste...

hoten 5y ago
Most of the Patriot act was to expire after 4 years. It was renewed by Congress multiple times. Parts of it were renewed in separate bills after it eventually expired. For the COVID ETS from this June, OSHA has been coordinating with the CDC monthly to determine if it is still necessary. See https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/ets#:~:text=to%20assess%20the%20ongoing%20need%20 https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/ets#:~:text=to%20assess%20t... Although, just like Afghanistan, there's no clear end to COVID afaik ... although I disagree with the implication that there's some great benefit the government / other interests are getting out of this ETS, of the same scale that the military-industrial complex/the executive branch got out of the PATRIOT act/Afghanistan.
- erklik 5y ago
  > there's some great benefit the government / other interests are getting out of this ETS Pharma is gonna be making some good money out of COVID, no? The amount of tests that have been produced, plus the amount of vaccines being used are certainly not free.
  - Paradigma11 5y ago
    They would be making a lot more money without the vaccines.
    - erklik 5y ago
      How's that?
      - Paradigma11 5y ago
        Sick people are far far more profitable than those few bucks for vaccines. If you add long covid then pharma is missing out on a goldmine.
        furgooswft13 5y ago
        dude, big pharma has been handed a blank check from the government to produce a recurring product that is legally mandated for the entire populace to use. This is the sweetest deal in all of history for them.
        mrguyorama 5y ago
        The vaccine is $20 a head, that doesn't even get you a tissue if you were hospitalized.
        errantmind 5y ago
        Big pharma is not hospitals.
        landemva 5y ago
        and exempt from product liability. 2x sweet.
        chitowneats 5y ago
        For the entire healthcare sector? Maybe. For pharmaceutical companies? In comparison to a liability-free, recurring subscription, mandated by the federal government for hundreds of millions? Not so much.
- iammisc 5y ago
  > of the same scale that the military-industrial complex/the executive branch got out of the PATRIOT act/Afghanistan. Given that covid and the subsequent reaction realized one of the largest wealth transfers from poor to rich in modern history and led to great market returns for those in power, how can you honestly say this? Look.. like most people on hacker news I am in the top 1% of earners and due to my industry benefitted greatly from covid lockdowns. But just because we benefited, we cannot be blind to the mass robbery that has taken place. We've literally robbed the poor to pay the wealthy.
jimmygrapes 5y ago
My concern is why OSHA has not issued emergency mandatory ventilation and air circulation orders, since that's actually within their wheelhouse vs this extension into medical demands which until now had been limited strongly to vague recommendations and couched in informed consent language (e.g. Hepatitis awareness)
- loonster 5y ago
  Yes, or mandating sinks be installed in the entry of buildings.
- Ekaros 5y ago
  Yeah, why not mandate gas masks? They aren't too expensive and work.
- guscost 5y ago
  Search your feelings, you already know the answer.
- quickthrowman 5y ago
  Because that requires tremendous capital and labor costs, overhauling HVAC in every private and public building would take years, there aren’t enough electricians and tinners/pipefitters. HVAC equipment is also very expensive and most public institutions have already budgeted for capital costs. Who will pay for it all?
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  > My concern is why OSHA has not issued emergency mandatory ventilation and air circulation orders Low hanging fruit. One is easy to order, cheap to implement, and cheap to verify, the other would be expensive to implement and even more expensive to verify.
version_five 5y ago
There is going to be a massive enforcement bureaucracy set up. Unwinding that will be nontrivial. Once people's budgets and fiefdoms at work depend on it, they will fight to keep or grow their power. This will be around in some form for a very long time.
- op00to 5y ago
  … you realize that we already have the department of labor and OSHA. The bureaucracy is already there and keeping us safe.
op00to 5y ago
It’s temporary because formal rule making takes time.
david_allison 5y ago
> PATRIOT act Not sure if you're aware, but it expired in 2020
- the-dude 5y ago
  That is a bit of a moot point for a something that has been active for 2 decades. To call 20 years 'temporary' is a big stretch.
  - julianlam 5y ago
    Why? Temporary means "not permanent", it doesn't specify that it must be shorter than any given timeframe.
    - iammisc 5y ago
      The united states federal government is temporary too by that metric. Yet everyone gets mad when you talk about eradicating it.
  - pwinnski 5y ago
    It was temporary, originally enacted for four years. Unfortunately, it was extended a few times in whole and then in part before finally being allowed to expire completely after 18 years.
- iammisc 5y ago
  Due to a president that the media declared absolute war against. If Biden or Clinton were in office, they'd have renewed it quietly. Just because they can't sneak it back in now doesn't mean they don't want to. The new administration has already made bogeyman out of 'domestic terrorism' that it's own fbi cannot find evidence for.
hackflip 5y ago
I think they said something about two weeks.
chiefalchemist 5y ago
There's a bit in Ron Paul's "Revolution" where he points out that gov programs get added and grow but few are reduced or ended. His politics aside (i..e., regardless of party, he does have plenty of first hand experience), there's plenty of evidence to support this. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Revolution:_A_Manifesto https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Revolution:_A_Manifesto Oddly enough, a couple of weeks ago at the local thrift store I picked up "The Secret History of the American Empire" by John Perkins. Even if only half of it is accurate, there's also plenty of reason to believe there are less than noble forces at work given the current changes and the opportunities they create. https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/the-secret-history-of-the-american-empire_john-perkins/256163/#edition=4563452&idiq=6202888 https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/the-secret-history-of-the-amer...
everdrive 5y ago
>our invasion of Afghanistan in 2001 So it'll only be around for 20 years?

hoten 5y ago

Most of the Patriot act was to expire after 4 years. It was renewed by Congress multiple times. Parts of it were renewed in separate bills after it eventually expired. For the COVID ETS from this June, OSHA has been coordinating with the CDC monthly to determine if it is still necessary. See https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/ets#:~:text=to%20assess%20the%20ongoing%20need%20 https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/ets#:~:text=to%20assess%20t... Although, just like Afghanistan, there's no clear end to COVID afaik ... although I disagree with the implication that there's some great benefit the government / other interests are getting out of this ETS, of the same scale that the military-industrial complex/the executive branch got out of the PATRIOT act/Afghanistan.

erklik 5y ago
> there's some great benefit the government / other interests are getting out of this ETS Pharma is gonna be making some good money out of COVID, no? The amount of tests that have been produced, plus the amount of vaccines being used are certainly not free.
- Paradigma11 5y ago
  They would be making a lot more money without the vaccines.
  - erklik 5y ago
    How's that?
    - Paradigma11 5y ago
      Sick people are far far more profitable than those few bucks for vaccines. If you add long covid then pharma is missing out on a goldmine.
      - furgooswft13 5y ago
        dude, big pharma has been handed a blank check from the government to produce a recurring product that is legally mandated for the entire populace to use. This is the sweetest deal in all of history for them.
        mrguyorama 5y ago
        The vaccine is $20 a head, that doesn't even get you a tissue if you were hospitalized.
        errantmind 5y ago
        Big pharma is not hospitals.
        landemva 5y ago
        and exempt from product liability. 2x sweet.
      - chitowneats 5y ago
        For the entire healthcare sector? Maybe. For pharmaceutical companies? In comparison to a liability-free, recurring subscription, mandated by the federal government for hundreds of millions? Not so much.
iammisc 5y ago
> of the same scale that the military-industrial complex/the executive branch got out of the PATRIOT act/Afghanistan. Given that covid and the subsequent reaction realized one of the largest wealth transfers from poor to rich in modern history and led to great market returns for those in power, how can you honestly say this? Look.. like most people on hacker news I am in the top 1% of earners and due to my industry benefitted greatly from covid lockdowns. But just because we benefited, we cannot be blind to the mass robbery that has taken place. We've literally robbed the poor to pay the wealthy.

jimmygrapes 5y ago

My concern is why OSHA has not issued emergency mandatory ventilation and air circulation orders, since that's actually within their wheelhouse vs this extension into medical demands which until now had been limited strongly to vague recommendations and couched in informed consent language (e.g. Hepatitis awareness)

loonster 5y ago
Yes, or mandating sinks be installed in the entry of buildings.
Ekaros 5y ago
Yeah, why not mandate gas masks? They aren't too expensive and work.
guscost 5y ago
Search your feelings, you already know the answer.
quickthrowman 5y ago
Because that requires tremendous capital and labor costs, overhauling HVAC in every private and public building would take years, there aren’t enough electricians and tinners/pipefitters. HVAC equipment is also very expensive and most public institutions have already budgeted for capital costs. Who will pay for it all?
seanmcdirmid 5y ago
> My concern is why OSHA has not issued emergency mandatory ventilation and air circulation orders Low hanging fruit. One is easy to order, cheap to implement, and cheap to verify, the other would be expensive to implement and even more expensive to verify.

version_five 5y ago

There is going to be a massive enforcement bureaucracy set up. Unwinding that will be nontrivial. Once people's budgets and fiefdoms at work depend on it, they will fight to keep or grow their power. This will be around in some form for a very long time.

op00to 5y ago
… you realize that we already have the department of labor and OSHA. The bureaucracy is already there and keeping us safe.

op00to 5y ago

It’s temporary because formal rule making takes time.

david_allison 5y ago

> PATRIOT act Not sure if you're aware, but it expired in 2020

the-dude 5y ago
That is a bit of a moot point for a something that has been active for 2 decades. To call 20 years 'temporary' is a big stretch.
- julianlam 5y ago
  Why? Temporary means "not permanent", it doesn't specify that it must be shorter than any given timeframe.
  - iammisc 5y ago
    The united states federal government is temporary too by that metric. Yet everyone gets mad when you talk about eradicating it.
- pwinnski 5y ago
  It was temporary, originally enacted for four years. Unfortunately, it was extended a few times in whole and then in part before finally being allowed to expire completely after 18 years.
iammisc 5y ago
Due to a president that the media declared absolute war against. If Biden or Clinton were in office, they'd have renewed it quietly. Just because they can't sneak it back in now doesn't mean they don't want to. The new administration has already made bogeyman out of 'domestic terrorism' that it's own fbi cannot find evidence for.

hackflip 5y ago

I think they said something about two weeks.

chiefalchemist 5y ago

There's a bit in Ron Paul's "Revolution" where he points out that gov programs get added and grow but few are reduced or ended. His politics aside (i..e., regardless of party, he does have plenty of first hand experience), there's plenty of evidence to support this. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Revolution:_A_Manifesto https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Revolution:_A_Manifesto Oddly enough, a couple of weeks ago at the local thrift store I picked up "The Secret History of the American Empire" by John Perkins. Even if only half of it is accurate, there's also plenty of reason to believe there are less than noble forces at work given the current changes and the opportunities they create. https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/the-secret-history-of-the-american-empire_john-perkins/256163/#edition=4563452&idiq=6202888 https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/the-secret-history-of-the-amer...

everdrive 5y ago

>our invasion of Afghanistan in 2001 So it'll only be around for 20 years?