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> hundreds of education partners across the country Thats different than saying "any accredited institution". I wonder if it is only low cost educational prog

> hundreds of education partners across the country Thats different than saying "any accredited institution". I wonder if it is only low cost educational programs...

pkulak 5y ago
Well, it does seem reasonable to put _some_ cost controls on it. Hopefully there's lots of great school on the list, but I very much doubt Dartmouth will make the cut.
- YPCrumble 5y ago
  Then the headline should read “Amazon to provide employee training” or something along those lines. As it is this is just corporate clickbait.
  - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
    No, it's not. An education at Random State College is still rather more than "employee training".
    - Frost1x 5y ago
      Not to Amazon it's not, but you won't see that in their propoganda. Even Random State Community College is likely a better education (this is not meant as a backhanded compliment to community colleges, which are at least honest and respectable about what they provide and don't).
      - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
        But if I'm getting the education, for free, why do I care whether it serves as employee training to Amazon? And, community colleges provide a better education than state colleges? Seriously? Do you have any evidence for that position?
        Frost1x 5y ago
        I believe you misinterpreted. State community colleges are likely better than any sort of "training programs" Amazon provides in terms of education. If those "training programs" happen to include a waiver at a full state university, then of course not, but the program waivers aren't entirely composed of 4 year universities and many seem to be Amazon tailored programs, based on the article.
        AnimalMuppet 5y ago
        Ah, I see. I misinterpreted you as saying that Amazon was using a real college as a training program. If Amazon will pay for "education", and the options are a four year degree or an Amazon training program, I'll take the degree and ignore their training.
  - junon 5y ago
    Agreed. The title sounds like Amazon will pay any college tuition, provided the student incurs a cost of some sort. This seems like more of a PR move than anything.
  - gruez 5y ago
    Since when do people think of 4-year degrees when they think of "employee training"?
- curt15 5y ago
  Don't the elite universities already tend to have generous financial aid programs? For example, Harvard waives tuition for families with <$65k/year income.
  - rejectedandsad 5y ago
    Nobody who's working as a front line employee at Amazon will get into Harvard tier schools so this is an irrelevant point anyway.
    - Kluny 5y ago
      Wow, such a wildly classist and unfounded assumption. Care to back it up with anything?
      - rejectedandsad 5y ago
        You know Harvard admits like 2k students per year right? Of which most are children of professors, upper middle class dream hoarders and maybe a handful of foreign and domestic notables? Plus a handful of people from the sticks, recruited athletes, legacies, and kids from poor urban high schools to round it out. *NORMAL PEOPLE* do not get into Harvard. NORMAL PEOPLE do work at Amazon. Meanwhile there are 900,000+ front line employees at Amazon. Bringing up elite schools in relation to this group is missing the forest for the trees, and frankly insulting to people that worked hard and went to state schools that you'd consider "failures".
        jazzyjackson 5y ago
        hey buddy, youre the first one to say anything about who’s a failure, conversation upstream was just about costs
        rejectedandsad 5y ago
        Bringing up top schools is implicitly describing people like me, Amazon employees that went to state schools, as failures. It's completely divorced from reality.
- tinyhouse 5y ago
  Of course Dartmouth won't. Why would Amazon pay ridiculous amount of money for the same education you can get much cheaper somewhere else? (e.g., Coursera or many state universities). This program is about people gaining useful skills to advance their careers, not about fancy diplomas and networking. Do you think that Dartmouth or any elite school can better teach someone intro to coding than thousands of other legit places? Update: this is getting downvoted. I guess many Dartmouth graduates here with ego...
  - krastanov 5y ago
    HN generally considers it distasteful to complain about downvotes, especially in uninformed ways. The downvotes are because of your false claims about the cost of study at these universities. Check here https://financialaid.dartmouth.edu/cost-attendance/myintuition-quick-cost-estimator https://financialaid.dartmouth.edu/cost-attendance/myintuiti... and put in the typical situation of a frontline amazon worker and see how much they would be expected to actually pay after the financial aid is subtracted (it will be close to zero, I just checked). Universities, especially prestigious ones are expensive in the US. But the prestigious ones also happen to have incredibly good financial aid options. The problem is the classist system that makes it difficult for a low-income person to have the CV that lets them get admitted. Paying the rest after being admitted is comparatively easy (both for the rich and for the poor). It is the middle class that is in a bit uncomfortable situation as the financial aid can still have aggressive cutoffs.
    - tinyhouse 5y ago
      Financial aid is irrelevant here because Amazon is the one paying. Dartmouth not gonna give Amazon financial aid. If someone else pays your tuition you not gonna apply for financial aid.
- rejectedandsad 5y ago
  > but I very much doubt Dartmouth will make the cut. Do you really think front line employees at Amazon are going to go to Dartmouth? People that worked hard in high school and college like me can't go to Dartmouth. Bizarre to equate that with quality when this is designed to give people opportunities to pay for University of New Hampshire.
  - earthscienceman 5y ago
    I upvoted you just so that your ignorance can make a good discussion point. There are an innumerable amount of "hard working" students that have all sorts of jobs in our economy. I'm now a 30-something tenured researcher at a world class instution, but at one point I was a 19 year old working swing shifts in a manufacturing plant while attending a world class university... because although I worked hard in high school just like you... I also desperately needed money. It would have been great if my greedy/zealous manager would have paid for my college, I was repairing the electronics and software for him at near minimum wage anyway.
    - rejectedandsad 5y ago
      > while attending a world class university Most of us can't attend "world class universities", we're inherently inferior. The vast majority, actually. So bringing up elite schools in this conversation is both irrelevant and in many cases just self aggrandizing. I don't know how you twisted what I said into the idea that people from FCs can't go to top schools, but the reality is almost none (and probably close to none) do.
    - Supermancho 5y ago
      > I upvoted you just so that your ignorance I upvoted because he's correct. There's a staggering amount of denial in this thread. Statistically (and recently https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2019/03/history-privilege-elite-college-admissions/585088/ https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2019/03/histor...) the trends remain unchanged for Ivy league schools. The competition is high and the prejudices are baked in.
grantseltzer 5y ago
Contrary to popular belief, you can get a quality education at programs that don't put you $200,000 in debt.
- volkk 5y ago
  I think by low cost--OP meant unaccredited. Community colleges can certainly be amazing for the money
  - wombat-man 5y ago
    aren't a lot of unaccredited places like, for profit institutions generally lower quality and more expensive? They're trying to squeeze you for student loan bucks. CCs or state colleges would be great imo.
- leetrout 5y ago
  I hold a degree from a small, regional university and I am better for it IMO. That wasn't my point... I'm more curious where and what you can actually study.
AzzieElbab 5y ago
Who cares? If Amazon hires them in different capacity afterwards, it is all good? GM and GE used to do this all the time. I have met engineers who started as track drivers and factory line workers
- leetrout 5y ago
  I agree completely. That wasn't my point and I hope it is useful for folks beyond climbing the Amazon ladder but knowing friends trying to escape driving a forklift in a warehouse any thing to help is better than nothing.
maerF0x0 5y ago
Yeah like my work has an education solution too -- Linkedin Learning, so far it's been roughly useless or the kinds of things only HR thinks makes nice little worker bots
- leetrout 5y ago
  I don't think that is the case here but I have experienced the same.
freeopinion 5y ago
Define low cost. Universities are ashamed of their own tuition. Many of them hide it. It is common for universities to charge a single sum for "full-time" students--students whose credit load is above some threshhold. But, Kansas State, for instance, only lists per credit tuition: ~$320. If you take 16 credits--a pace that could have you graduate in four years--that would be over $5k/semester, about $41k for the most minimal four-year degree. Boise State charges (in 2021) $4k/semester for full-time students. Is that low cost? Boston College charges $30k+/semester. U of Texas costs ~$6500/semester. If K-State, Boise State, and UT are considered low cost, I think you'll be fine. These all provide a fine education.
- freeopinion 5y ago
  FWIW, Stanford claims, "Tuition is covered for undergrads with family incomes under $150,000. Tuition, room and board are covered for undergrads with family incomes below $75,000."[0] That sounds pretty low cost and I would guess the financial threshholds would apply to most of Amazon's front line workers. [0] https://www.stanford.edu/admission/ https://www.stanford.edu/admission/
  - prepend 5y ago
    “Tuition covered” means student loans, not waivers. Someone I loved was accepted at a school like Stanford with a similar policy. The good news was the entire $50k tuition (10 years ago) was covered, the bad news was that meant $1500 in work study, $6k in scholarships, and $43.5k in student loans guaranteed. Plus $10k for room and board. The way schools word this is such a dark pattern.
    - freeopinion 5y ago
      I agree that what you describe doesn't seem honest. I'm also trying to read between the lines of your words. Is that $50k + $10k per semester? Per year? $10k would have covered 4 years of rent in a lot of places 10 years ago, but only one year of room and board in others. $50k still covers 4 years of tuition in lots of places, but not lots of places "like Stanford". I'm gonna guess that all your numbers represent a single year. Then I have to ask, they only earned $9000 outside of work study during that period? That seems seriously low for a year. Were they prevented from working during the school year?

> hundreds of education partners across the country Thats different than saying "any accredited institution". I wonder if it is only low cost educational programs...

pkulak 5y ago

Well, it does seem reasonable to put _some_ cost controls on it. Hopefully there's lots of great school on the list, but I very much doubt Dartmouth will make the cut.

YPCrumble 5y ago
Then the headline should read “Amazon to provide employee training” or something along those lines. As it is this is just corporate clickbait.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  No, it's not. An education at Random State College is still rather more than "employee training".
  - Frost1x 5y ago
    Not to Amazon it's not, but you won't see that in their propoganda. Even Random State Community College is likely a better education (this is not meant as a backhanded compliment to community colleges, which are at least honest and respectable about what they provide and don't).
    - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
      But if I'm getting the education, for free, why do I care whether it serves as employee training to Amazon? And, community colleges provide a better education than state colleges? Seriously? Do you have any evidence for that position?
      - Frost1x 5y ago
        I believe you misinterpreted. State community colleges are likely better than any sort of "training programs" Amazon provides in terms of education. If those "training programs" happen to include a waiver at a full state university, then of course not, but the program waivers aren't entirely composed of 4 year universities and many seem to be Amazon tailored programs, based on the article.
        AnimalMuppet 5y ago
        Ah, I see. I misinterpreted you as saying that Amazon was using a real college as a training program. If Amazon will pay for "education", and the options are a four year degree or an Amazon training program, I'll take the degree and ignore their training.
- junon 5y ago
  Agreed. The title sounds like Amazon will pay any college tuition, provided the student incurs a cost of some sort. This seems like more of a PR move than anything.
- gruez 5y ago
  Since when do people think of 4-year degrees when they think of "employee training"?
curt15 5y ago
Don't the elite universities already tend to have generous financial aid programs? For example, Harvard waives tuition for families with <$65k/year income.
- rejectedandsad 5y ago
  Nobody who's working as a front line employee at Amazon will get into Harvard tier schools so this is an irrelevant point anyway.
  - Kluny 5y ago
    Wow, such a wildly classist and unfounded assumption. Care to back it up with anything?
    - rejectedandsad 5y ago
      You know Harvard admits like 2k students per year right? Of which most are children of professors, upper middle class dream hoarders and maybe a handful of foreign and domestic notables? Plus a handful of people from the sticks, recruited athletes, legacies, and kids from poor urban high schools to round it out. *NORMAL PEOPLE* do not get into Harvard. NORMAL PEOPLE do work at Amazon. Meanwhile there are 900,000+ front line employees at Amazon. Bringing up elite schools in relation to this group is missing the forest for the trees, and frankly insulting to people that worked hard and went to state schools that you'd consider "failures".
      - jazzyjackson 5y ago
        hey buddy, youre the first one to say anything about who’s a failure, conversation upstream was just about costs
        rejectedandsad 5y ago
        Bringing up top schools is implicitly describing people like me, Amazon employees that went to state schools, as failures. It's completely divorced from reality.
tinyhouse 5y ago
Of course Dartmouth won't. Why would Amazon pay ridiculous amount of money for the same education you can get much cheaper somewhere else? (e.g., Coursera or many state universities). This program is about people gaining useful skills to advance their careers, not about fancy diplomas and networking. Do you think that Dartmouth or any elite school can better teach someone intro to coding than thousands of other legit places? Update: this is getting downvoted. I guess many Dartmouth graduates here with ego...
- krastanov 5y ago
  HN generally considers it distasteful to complain about downvotes, especially in uninformed ways. The downvotes are because of your false claims about the cost of study at these universities. Check here https://financialaid.dartmouth.edu/cost-attendance/myintuition-quick-cost-estimator https://financialaid.dartmouth.edu/cost-attendance/myintuiti... and put in the typical situation of a frontline amazon worker and see how much they would be expected to actually pay after the financial aid is subtracted (it will be close to zero, I just checked). Universities, especially prestigious ones are expensive in the US. But the prestigious ones also happen to have incredibly good financial aid options. The problem is the classist system that makes it difficult for a low-income person to have the CV that lets them get admitted. Paying the rest after being admitted is comparatively easy (both for the rich and for the poor). It is the middle class that is in a bit uncomfortable situation as the financial aid can still have aggressive cutoffs.
  - tinyhouse 5y ago
    Financial aid is irrelevant here because Amazon is the one paying. Dartmouth not gonna give Amazon financial aid. If someone else pays your tuition you not gonna apply for financial aid.
rejectedandsad 5y ago
> but I very much doubt Dartmouth will make the cut. Do you really think front line employees at Amazon are going to go to Dartmouth? People that worked hard in high school and college like me can't go to Dartmouth. Bizarre to equate that with quality when this is designed to give people opportunities to pay for University of New Hampshire.
- earthscienceman 5y ago
  I upvoted you just so that your ignorance can make a good discussion point. There are an innumerable amount of "hard working" students that have all sorts of jobs in our economy. I'm now a 30-something tenured researcher at a world class instution, but at one point I was a 19 year old working swing shifts in a manufacturing plant while attending a world class university... because although I worked hard in high school just like you... I also desperately needed money. It would have been great if my greedy/zealous manager would have paid for my college, I was repairing the electronics and software for him at near minimum wage anyway.
  - rejectedandsad 5y ago
    > while attending a world class university Most of us can't attend "world class universities", we're inherently inferior. The vast majority, actually. So bringing up elite schools in this conversation is both irrelevant and in many cases just self aggrandizing. I don't know how you twisted what I said into the idea that people from FCs can't go to top schools, but the reality is almost none (and probably close to none) do.
  - Supermancho 5y ago
    > I upvoted you just so that your ignorance I upvoted because he's correct. There's a staggering amount of denial in this thread. Statistically (and recently https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2019/03/history-privilege-elite-college-admissions/585088/ https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2019/03/histor...) the trends remain unchanged for Ivy league schools. The competition is high and the prejudices are baked in.

grantseltzer 5y ago

Contrary to popular belief, you can get a quality education at programs that don't put you $200,000 in debt.

volkk 5y ago
I think by low cost--OP meant unaccredited. Community colleges can certainly be amazing for the money
- wombat-man 5y ago
  aren't a lot of unaccredited places like, for profit institutions generally lower quality and more expensive? They're trying to squeeze you for student loan bucks. CCs or state colleges would be great imo.
leetrout 5y ago
I hold a degree from a small, regional university and I am better for it IMO. That wasn't my point... I'm more curious where and what you can actually study.

AzzieElbab 5y ago

Who cares? If Amazon hires them in different capacity afterwards, it is all good? GM and GE used to do this all the time. I have met engineers who started as track drivers and factory line workers

leetrout 5y ago
I agree completely. That wasn't my point and I hope it is useful for folks beyond climbing the Amazon ladder but knowing friends trying to escape driving a forklift in a warehouse any thing to help is better than nothing.

maerF0x0 5y ago

Yeah like my work has an education solution too -- Linkedin Learning, so far it's been roughly useless or the kinds of things only HR thinks makes nice little worker bots

leetrout 5y ago
I don't think that is the case here but I have experienced the same.

freeopinion 5y ago

Define low cost. Universities are ashamed of their own tuition. Many of them hide it. It is common for universities to charge a single sum for "full-time" students--students whose credit load is above some threshhold. But, Kansas State, for instance, only lists per credit tuition: ~$320. If you take 16 credits--a pace that could have you graduate in four years--that would be over $5k/semester, about $41k for the most minimal four-year degree. Boise State charges (in 2021) $4k/semester for full-time students. Is that low cost? Boston College charges $30k+/semester. U of Texas costs ~$6500/semester. If K-State, Boise State, and UT are considered low cost, I think you'll be fine. These all provide a fine education.

freeopinion 5y ago
FWIW, Stanford claims, "Tuition is covered for undergrads with family incomes under $150,000. Tuition, room and board are covered for undergrads with family incomes below $75,000."[0] That sounds pretty low cost and I would guess the financial threshholds would apply to most of Amazon's front line workers. [0] https://www.stanford.edu/admission/ https://www.stanford.edu/admission/
- prepend 5y ago
  “Tuition covered” means student loans, not waivers. Someone I loved was accepted at a school like Stanford with a similar policy. The good news was the entire $50k tuition (10 years ago) was covered, the bad news was that meant $1500 in work study, $6k in scholarships, and $43.5k in student loans guaranteed. Plus $10k for room and board. The way schools word this is such a dark pattern.
  - freeopinion 5y ago
    I agree that what you describe doesn't seem honest. I'm also trying to read between the lines of your words. Is that $50k + $10k per semester? Per year? $10k would have covered 4 years of rent in a lot of places 10 years ago, but only one year of room and board in others. $50k still covers 4 years of tuition in lots of places, but not lots of places "like Stanford". I'm gonna guess that all your numbers represent a single year. Then I have to ask, they only earned $9000 outside of work study during that period? That seems seriously low for a year. Were they prevented from working during the school year?