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Canada aims to block Chelsea Manning from entering country
- 71a54xd 5y agoAt one point, Chelsea Manning was the core of a progressive movement, with aims for positive change and progress. Now, even as an activist myself, it's hard to see her as anything other than a politically driven rogue who's clearly lost their bearings of right and wrong in relation to their original activism.
- chitowneats 5y agoManning is not an outlier. The ACLU, and other organizations ostensibly committed to human freedom, have largely gone the same way.
- denkmoon 5y agoHow so?
- chitowneats 5y agoI'm prepared for the deluge of down votes. https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/civil-liberties-and-vaccine-mandates-heres-our-take/ https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/civil-liberties-an... There is no world in which a mandate for all citizens 12 and older to have a particular medical treatment, otherwise be barred from public life, is about "civil liberties". It's such a contortion.
- brandmeyer 5y agohttps://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27414920 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27414920 There are numerous articles that discuss this article in turn. The short version: Many current members of the ACLU are advocating to take up progressively-aligned cases specifically instead of civil liberties causes generally.
- q1w2 5y agoIt's pretty iconic of the modern far-left movement. They really do earn the term "regressive".
- yunohn 5y agoIn response to the flagged comment below yours: > a particular medical treatment What a /contortion/ to avoid saying “vaccine”. In the context of this thread and your comment about medical treatments - immigrants from developing countries to the USA and various other Western countries, need to prove that they’ve gotten a litany of vaccinations. This COVID mandate is actually quite mild compared to this historical policy.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- chitowneats 5y agoThe real contortion is describing mRNA gene therapy, that is non-sterilizing, and requires frequent boosters, as a "vaccine". Can you think of any other vaccine you have taken that works like this? Of course, this is novel tech. So perhaps we should expect a few differences. But typically HN is more appropriately skeptical of such innovations and would not cheer on government mandates that require them for 12 year olds immediately after FDA emergency authorization ends.
- skuhn 5y agoYou are spreading misinformation. mRNA vaccines are not gene therapy. They do not alter DNA. https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-mrna-gene/fact-check-mrna-vaccines-are-distinct-from-gene-therapy-which-alters-recipients-genes-idUSL1N2PH16N https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-mrna-gene/fa... https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210719/covid-19-vaccines-not-gene-therapy https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210719/covid-19-vaccines-n... https://www.genomicseducation.hee.nhs.uk/blog/why-mrna-vaccines-arent-gene-therapies/ https://www.genomicseducation.hee.nhs.uk/blog/why-mrna-vacci...
- danShumway 5y agoThe characterization of mRNA as "gene therapy" is really a master-stroke of propaganda from the anti-vax movement considering that mRNA vaccines never enter the cell nucleus and that they replace the traditional vaccine technique of literally inserting viruses into your body -- you know, the things that specialize in attacking and rewiring your cells. mRNA technology isn't new, but even if it was, it's still wild to claim that a delivery mechanism that's less invasive than traditional vaccine techniques is somehow magically more dangerous. Also, tons of existing vaccines require boosters, and not all vaccines produce sterilizing immunity -- the COVID vaccines are not unique in that regard.
- _3u10 5y agoYup, dig up their pandemic preparedness docs from back before they became pro-life rather than pro-choice.
- ipaddr 5y agoBanning entry for a whistle blowing crime when the country where the crime happened wrote off the sentence is more important to me than her movement between progressive hero to outsider. Calling out her crimes and placing them on the same level of rape, murder speaks to a disinformation campaign that gets unleashed but those in power. I have no clue what her message is but why is it _so dangerous to those in power that they would try to shut her down?
- chitowneats 5y agoDespite my comment below critical of Manning's contemporary politics, I agree there is no reason they should be barred from entry to Canada.
- 8note 5y agoFrom Canada's perspective, it pisses off our auperpower neighbor. Doing that doesn't go well for canada
- chitowneats 5y agoIf that superpower didn't want Manning in Canada presumably they would have left them in prison.
- _3u10 5y agoCommutation is not a pardon. Canada lines up US charges with Canadian ones, we like the US, regard disclosing classified info as a serious crime that bars one from entry. It’s not a disinformation campaign it’s the law, you and I may not like it but it’s been this way for a long time. They aren’t singling out Manning.
- gruez 5y ago>Calling out her crimes and placing them on the same level of rape, murder speaks to a disinformation campaign that gets unleashed but those in power. What makes you think she was compared to murderers and rapists? Comments elsewhere in this thread says that people with DWIs get stopped at the border as well.
- coldtea 5y agoReally? What exactly changed? Besides the left being more and more a substitute for GOP-style policies...
- redis_mlc 5y ago> progressive movement, with aims for positive change and progress. The word progressive is code for Marxist. Marxism is not about "positive change and progress" - it's about naked power grabs and violence that have resulted in the deaths of around 100 million people in the past century. Ironically it's the activists that are lined up against the wall first, since they know what the real agenda is. (A current example is the downstream BLM organizations asking where the money is after the parent BLM organization started handing out real estate to the board members.)
- MattGaiser 5y ago> The government’s position is that she should be blocked on grounds of serious criminality. Thousands of people are turned away at the Canadian border for similar reasons each year. Like it aims to block all the other convicted criminals who apply for entry.
- freeone3000 5y agoHer sentence was commuted and the conviction was more than 10 years ago, so it's possible to apply for rehabilitation. Immigration is seeking to preemptively block this.
- bbarnett 5y agoOne thing I do know, is that the data sharing arrangement between the US and Canada, shares criminal records. For both countries, pardons, commuted sentences, do not hide the transfer of information, and are meaningless. This is because each country only cares about the crime, and its own assessment of "should this person, with crime x, be allowed in". Outside of that, a presidential commuted sentence, by its very nature, is political, not court based. Lastly, each country puts the safety of its citizens, above the rights of foreigners to visit. I wanted to reply with these points, before reading the article, as generic, non-case specific logic is important here.
- bbarnett 5y agoReplying to myself here, after reading. I have no idea, after reading. I wish I knew if the delays were standard (eg, backlog), and so on. I also wish I knew how others in this situation fare. As a Canuck, I want no special treatment for anyone, pro or against, but just the job done correctly, and that means fair, compared to how others are treated / the law. Is her lawyer using the media / spinning things, to try to help the case? Maybe. Not enough info for me to know wtf.
- sandworm101 5y ago>> the rights of foreigners to visit. Which is not actually a right. Americans have no more a right to travel to Canada than Canadians have a right to come to the US. I venture that more canadians are probably denied entry to the US than Americans are denied by Canada.
- VWWHFSfQ 5y agoI didn't even know that Manning was released from the federal supermax. When did that happen? Edit: > The decision, made in the last days of Obama's presidency, means that Manning can be freed May 17 [2017], seven years into a prison term that has been marked by two suicide attempts and a hunger strike aimed at obtaining sex reassignment surgery. Looks like it was 2017. I had no idea. Is Canada going to take her?
- mumblemumble 5y agoBarack Obama commuted her sentence toward the end of his second term.
- tyingq 5y agoIt wasn't a Supermax prison, fwiw. A couple of different military prisons, but not Supermax. Though it did start with almost a year of solitary confinement.
- kennywinker 5y agoIdk how isolated you were march-april-may 2020, but I was seeing a few friends and had ample access to zoom hangs and it still had a pretty big impact on my mental health. A year of solitary? Nobody deserves that. It’s torture.
- tyingq 5y agoI wasn't saying it was fine. Supermax, though, would mean solitary the entire time as well as some other differences.
- grubbs 5y agoMy buddy wasn't allowed into Canada for an intl transfer because he had a DUI a decade earlier... Not surprised heh.
- chillwaves 5y agoI wonder how they get access to this information. It didn't even seem like the US govt is coordinated enough between the different states to reliably catch this.
- MattGaiser 5y agoIs that an output problem or an input problem? It may be that the states are terrible at gathering information rather than reporting it.
- VWWHFSfQ 5y agoThere isn't a great system for inter-state reporting in the USA. That may be good, or bad.. But states operate largely independently.
- chrisseaton 5y agoThey ask you. If you lie about it they will likely ban you for even longer.
- tshaddox 5y agoDo they ask you if you lied immediately after the first question?
- chrisseaton 5y agoYou’re being snarky, but the reason they just ask you is so that if you’re caught lying they can deport you for the lie, rather than having to try to deport you for whatever you did.
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- micromacrofoot 5y agoIs Canada worried that she'll join their military, gain security clearance, and leak their documents too?
- nullc 5y agoThey already ban anyone with a conviction and have for a long time.
- q1w2 5y agoProgressives want special rules for themselves.
- fieryskiff11 5y ago> officials in Ottawa are seeking to permanently block her from entering Canada. > her
- _3u10 5y agoThe PM is losing an election, the last thing he needs right now is to be seen supporting another Omar Khadr after taking massive heat on Afghanistan. Give it a few months and if re-elected will roll out the red carpet for her.
- xvector 5y agoOf course Canada won't allow Manning in. Canada is a Five Eyes member and works to undermine the privacy and digital freedoms of billions globally. Can't have an opponent to the surveillance state around, after all.
- q1w2 5y agoI think this is a pretty standard case of a person with a criminal conviction being denied entry to a foreign country. It happens tens of thousands of times per year to other people.
- quasarsunnix 5y agoMy wife has a misdemeanor from when she was young and can’t enter Canada for the same reason. As a Brit, I think it’s pretty petty as she was fine to move to the UK and work there. We now live in the US where she works for a large employer and has passed numerous background checks. Sometimes I think Canada is more interested in portraying itself as a progressive beacon to the world than actually being one.
- anticodon 5y agoCanada provided (and still provides) shelter for nazi war criminals (e.g. Helmut Oberlander).
- ivalm 5y agoTo be fair, reading wikipedia it really does seem that they are trying to deport him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Oberlander https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Oberlander
- anticodon 5y agoYes, after 26 years of attempts to postpone this.
- MattGaiser 5y agoIt seems like the government tried, but was limited by process. Revoking citizenship is a touchy and complicated subject up here.
- q1w2 5y agoStill - one data point does not prove a trend.
- petre 5y agoExcept they're not trying hard enough.
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- URfejk 5y agoMs. Manning’s? Genetically, he is still a man ... Look at that, HN crowd downvoting me for telling the truth ...
- abdel_nasser 5y agohttps://greenwald.substack.com/p/all-communications-between-myself https://greenwald.substack.com/p/all-communications-between-...
- _a9 5y agoThat was a sad read. I have always respected Glenn because he fights for the truth. She should not have said something so exaggerated and vague just because he associates with people she dislikes, especially since he hasn't spoken to her in many years while her statement sounds like he is a monster that has been attacking her. Very manipulative. Politics has melted the brains of so many.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- RocketOne 5y ago"Federal officials are preparing to argue that Ms. Manning’s past crimes render her too dangerous to be allowed entry into the country. The government’s position is that she should be blocked on grounds of serious criminality." Whistleblowing war crimes and embarrassing the US on the world stage = "serious criminality"
- q1w2 5y agoIn a literal sense, she committed and was convicted of serious crimes. Ethically, I understand some debate that - but legally - it is not in debate.