4 ms·

My bet: refusing to give up your social media information will be considered probable cause.

by t-3 5y ago

suifbwish 5y ago
You don’t smile during your cavity searches eh? Must be hiding something in there.
adventured 5y ago
> My bet: refusing to give up your social media information will be considered probable cause. It won't be. That won't come close to holding up in terms of legal challenges. And it won't take long to get challenged legally. It's not a close debate, it's not a maybe situation, it won't come close to holding up. The LAPD may attempt to use that angle - probable cause - in some isolated circumstances short-term, before there's anything specifically legally blocking them, if they're going to get aggressive with trying to procure social media information from people. They would know that refusal to provide social media details as probable cause can't hold up legally to a challenge and they'll risk getting barred from asking entirely, so they'll likely be careful about who they try that tactic on.
- babyblueblanket 5y ago
  Who can afford to legally challenge an entire police department? Probably not the disproportionately targeted...
  - chrisco255 5y ago
    You've never heard of class action lawsuits?
    - anigbrowl 5y ago
      Being falsely arrested and sent to jail is bad enough. Many people who experience that have no desire to relive the experience through a long-=drawn out and possibly expensive process of litigation.
- r00fus 5y ago
  There's a lot of room between "probable cause" and "we don't like you". They can essentially detain you for hours, unless you know the keywords and are able to ask for and actually summon legal support.
tptacek 5y ago
That's not how probable cause works. It's not a message board argument. This ain't 'Nam.
- stefan_ 5y ago
  Does "You May Beat the Rap, But You Can't Beat The Ride" mean anything to you?
  - tptacek 5y ago
    Not in this context, no.
    - refenestrator 5y ago
      Stop resisting! That's it, we're taking you in for public obtuseness and resisting arrest. Yeah, yeah, you can make a phone call at the station, stop resisting.
  - darksaints 5y ago
    Yes. It means the cop knows that you won't get charged or convicted, which means he lacks probable cause for arrest, thereby committing a felony. https://www.justice.gov/crt/deprivation-rights-under-color-law https://www.justice.gov/crt/deprivation-rights-under-color-l... Unfortunately, prosecutors are chicken shit when it comes to criminal cops.
    - MertsA 5y ago
      Unless an officer openly admits to deliberately wrongfully arresting someone good luck prevailing on that in court. Even if a prosecutor was willing to, the bar for qualified immunity is extremely low.
      - darksaints 5y ago
        Qualified immunity has nothing to do with criminal law.
kuraudo 5y ago
We live in a world where people get shot for less. You better believe I'm complying with whatever they ask.
- thephyber 5y ago
  You can get shot for/while/after complying with police lawful orders. That’s not a good excuse to pretend like an inquiry is the same as a legal order or forced coercion. Better to know your legal rights so you can know what your options are. Better to know and exercise your rights when the risk trade off works for your risk tolerance. In the end, most officers will give more scrutiny if the civilian they are dealing with “fails the attitude test”. Remain calm and when you disagree / reject a request, do it politely and that will increase the odds that the officer won’t spend extra time to find a reason to cite/arrest you.
  - yardie 5y ago
    So what happens if a "civilian" fails the attitude test? Also, quit with the civilian crap. Cops are civilians too. If they want to play special forces join the military.
    - thephyber 5y ago
      It becomes a gamble whether the officer wants to spend more time looking for a reason to detain you. In my experience, police make lots of quick judgements about whether you are “a criminal” based on how compliant you are with their instructions and how normal your behavior is. If you are a nail sticking out, expect most officers to at least consider putting more effort into looking into what they can cite/arrest you for. The joke is that given enough time and incentive, any officer can cite any person for a vehicle infraction. Take that, but assume there are tons of other laws (not just vehicle codes) that a sufficiently motivated officer can use. I suspect it actually takes a lot to make an officer turn just a Terry Stop into an arrest. Maybe a verbal or gesture threat against the officer, maybe an admission of a crime, maybe behaviors that a jury would agree describe a person under the influence. I don’t think just saying “no” to a question on the first ask will cause any arrests. LEOs are very experienced at using small psychological tricks/nudges/anchoring to get what they want with compliant detainees.

My bet: refusing to give up your social media information will be considered probable cause.

by t-3 5y ago

My bet: refusing to give up your social media information will be considered probable cause.

suifbwish 5y ago

You don’t smile during your cavity searches eh? Must be hiding something in there.

adventured 5y ago

> My bet: refusing to give up your social media information will be considered probable cause. It won't be. That won't come close to holding up in terms of legal challenges. And it won't take long to get challenged legally. It's not a close debate, it's not a maybe situation, it won't come close to holding up. The LAPD may attempt to use that angle - probable cause - in some isolated circumstances short-term, before there's anything specifically legally blocking them, if they're going to get aggressive with trying to procure social media information from people. They would know that refusal to provide social media details as probable cause can't hold up legally to a challenge and they'll risk getting barred from asking entirely, so they'll likely be careful about who they try that tactic on.

babyblueblanket 5y ago
Who can afford to legally challenge an entire police department? Probably not the disproportionately targeted...
- chrisco255 5y ago
  You've never heard of class action lawsuits?
  - anigbrowl 5y ago
    Being falsely arrested and sent to jail is bad enough. Many people who experience that have no desire to relive the experience through a long-=drawn out and possibly expensive process of litigation.
r00fus 5y ago
There's a lot of room between "probable cause" and "we don't like you". They can essentially detain you for hours, unless you know the keywords and are able to ask for and actually summon legal support.

tptacek 5y ago

That's not how probable cause works. It's not a message board argument. This ain't 'Nam.

stefan_ 5y ago
Does "You May Beat the Rap, But You Can't Beat The Ride" mean anything to you?
- tptacek 5y ago
  Not in this context, no.
  - refenestrator 5y ago
    Stop resisting! That's it, we're taking you in for public obtuseness and resisting arrest. Yeah, yeah, you can make a phone call at the station, stop resisting.
- darksaints 5y ago
  Yes. It means the cop knows that you won't get charged or convicted, which means he lacks probable cause for arrest, thereby committing a felony. https://www.justice.gov/crt/deprivation-rights-under-color-law https://www.justice.gov/crt/deprivation-rights-under-color-l... Unfortunately, prosecutors are chicken shit when it comes to criminal cops.
  - MertsA 5y ago
    Unless an officer openly admits to deliberately wrongfully arresting someone good luck prevailing on that in court. Even if a prosecutor was willing to, the bar for qualified immunity is extremely low.
    - darksaints 5y ago
      Qualified immunity has nothing to do with criminal law.

kuraudo 5y ago

We live in a world where people get shot for less. You better believe I'm complying with whatever they ask.

thephyber 5y ago
You can get shot for/while/after complying with police lawful orders. That’s not a good excuse to pretend like an inquiry is the same as a legal order or forced coercion. Better to know your legal rights so you can know what your options are. Better to know and exercise your rights when the risk trade off works for your risk tolerance. In the end, most officers will give more scrutiny if the civilian they are dealing with “fails the attitude test”. Remain calm and when you disagree / reject a request, do it politely and that will increase the odds that the officer won’t spend extra time to find a reason to cite/arrest you.
- yardie 5y ago
  So what happens if a "civilian" fails the attitude test? Also, quit with the civilian crap. Cops are civilians too. If they want to play special forces join the military.
  - thephyber 5y ago
    It becomes a gamble whether the officer wants to spend more time looking for a reason to detain you. In my experience, police make lots of quick judgements about whether you are “a criminal” based on how compliant you are with their instructions and how normal your behavior is. If you are a nail sticking out, expect most officers to at least consider putting more effort into looking into what they can cite/arrest you for. The joke is that given enough time and incentive, any officer can cite any person for a vehicle infraction. Take that, but assume there are tons of other laws (not just vehicle codes) that a sufficiently motivated officer can use. I suspect it actually takes a lot to make an officer turn just a Terry Stop into an arrest. Maybe a verbal or gesture threat against the officer, maybe an admission of a crime, maybe behaviors that a jury would agree describe a person under the influence. I don’t think just saying “no” to a question on the first ask will cause any arrests. LEOs are very experienced at using small psychological tricks/nudges/anchoring to get what they want with compliant detainees.