26 ms·

The Creative World’s Bullshit Industrial Complex

174 points by vitabenes 5y ago

arthurcolle 5y ago
Pretty progressive of a publicly traded company to use profanity in their blog, I dig it! What is 99u?
- stagger87 5y ago
  https://99u.adobe.com/about https://99u.adobe.com/about
- Slow_Hand 5y ago
  Is there a common, non-profane, synonym for bullshit? I can't think of another word that conveys the same mixture of useless, deceptive, meritless, propaganda. While some may object to the use of profanity in a public space, I think such a reaction is fitting for the nature of bullshit. It SHOULD be repellent when invoked. A big, disgusting, load of crap that nobody should tolerate in their presence. I think bullshit captures the spirit of the term perfectly.
  - jarjoura 5y ago
    "load of crap" seems like the perfect synonym to me. Less provocative of a title, but there's other words that can convey the same.
  - reilly3000 5y ago
    Hogwash Poppycock Nonsense Rubbish Ya none of these quite hit like Bullshit.
  - BoxOfRain 5y ago
    "Bollocks" is a little less severe than "bullshit" in British English, but that word is still considered swearing by some. I agree that bullshit is the perfect word to describe the subject, it's a vulgar word because it causes a vulgar reaction when you experience it. Using a non-profane word would just dilute it.
yboris 5y ago
Video embedded in the article doesn't work, so here's the direct link: https://vimeo.com/167796382 https://vimeo.com/167796382
yboris 5y ago
The essay / book (from the posted link) "On Bullshit" Harry Frankfurt is an excellent short read. Here is the link to the book and PDF: https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691122946/on-bullshit https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691122946/on... http://www2.csudh.edu/ccauthen/576f12/frankfurt__harry_-_on_bullshit.pdf http://www2.csudh.edu/ccauthen/576f12/frankfurt__harry_-_on_...
tppiotrowski 5y ago
Reading about Galileo, Newton, and others when I was young, I felt that they came from means or had the means to do 'deep' work. Until you have the means, the Bullshit Industrial Complex seems like the rational path to follow. It gets attention which gets you paid. I wish all programmers with a healthy bank account and vested stock quit their FAANG jobs and did research or worked on personal projects. But there is greater external validation in saying you work at FAANG vs. I'm working on some highly technical topic only .01% of people will ever care about. Edit: I 'ass'umed why people don't do quiet research/building when they have the money but would love to hear first hand reasons.
- munchbunny 5y ago
  A lot of FAANG programmers are people who "work to live". Even with the financial means, the freedom to do what they want isn't necessarily something they value very heavily. Instead, it's a steady 9 to 5 and they have time for family, friends, and hobbies, and they're content with that. Also important to note though: while FAANG pays well, it doesn't pay so well that you can consistently retire at 35 unless you pay very close attention to your wealth management. If I had financial independence, I'd try to become a teacher. Unfortunately, even fully vested, I'm a good ways out from financial independence.
  - tppiotrowski 5y ago
    I think I picture "freedom to do what I want" as a studio apartment with a laptop, an internet connection and a library card needing something like $30K a year. So I think for every year I make $150K I can take ~3 years off. Everyones situation is different. Hope you get to teach some day.
    - tayo42 5y ago
      Your going to live in a studio doing nothing but hack on a laptop for the rest of your life? No other things to do discover or try? No people in your life?
      - 5y ago
KittenInABox 5y ago
One of the difficulties about being a creative is that bullshit is often required to earn enough to live off of. When you write a book, you may spend a very long time to write the work, then you spend a long time editing the book. Once it's actually purchased, your advance doesn't come in all at once but actually is split into 3/4 payments over the course of potentially 2 years. So if you get a 20k advance, you're actually only getting much less than that per payment. You have to then make up that shortfall with talks, interviews, patreon, and access to you in general as a published author which puts you in an authority position for advice. Unless you make it to well above bestseller level, and potentially even then, you have to participate in the bullshit pyramid described here if you want to be able to afford a living + paying your own healthcare.
- rikroots 5y ago
  I solved this problem by deciding early on that the only way for me to get creative stuff done, and to enjoy myself while getting creative stuff done, was to treat my creative endeavours as hobbies rather than income streams. Turns out you don't need to be a full time Poet, toiling away at the academic coalface 24/7/365, to have fun writing and sharing poems.
  - selfhoster11 5y ago
    Same. Creative writing was my own creative outlet after a long day spent doing IT.
elefanten 5y ago
Article was fine. Nodded along to parts of it. Then, hilariously, came the spread of card links below: -Obsessed: Building a Brand People Love from Day One -How to Build a Brand—From Anywhere—by Embracing Your Surroundings -99U Conference Speaker Spotlight: Alain Sylvain on the Ever-Changing, Infinite Pursuit of Creativity It's almost like they were trying to prove this article's point by immediately hitting you with a bunch of "bullshit"
- nomoreplease 5y ago
  I noticed this too! Thought it was a random advertisement that I happened to receive in perfect irony. The irony is even richer since it’s being shown to everyone
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- shantnutiwari 5y ago
  This is not suprising-- we've seen articles moaning about too many invasive ads on sites with hundreds of invasive ads. As always, the person who writes the article has nothing to do with the rest of the marketing team, for whom its business as usual
RGamma 5y ago
Yeah, it's become bad from a reader/viewer/listener/player standpoint as well. I've been waiting for the media torrent/general market oversaturation to die down, but the moment never comes. Until then I rely on personal recommendations, such as occasionally in the comments here. Store fronts, autosuggestions and viral stuff are a lottery not least due to many gaming the metrics and sheer volume of submissions; I don't really bother anymore and hope the pearls make their way to me anyway (or remain findable somewhere).
- asdff 5y ago
  There was a point a few decades ago where we took the expert individual out of decisionmaking and favored whatever we have today. A director like spielberg today would never have had the independence he enjoyed early in his career. It just wouldn't be possible anymore because of the mechanisms we have constructed in order to ensure we select the most generally engaging product out of the pile. Engaging rarely means good, an example is netflix's new cash cow "The Kissing Game" which started as a terrible terrible movie covering every cliche you can expect out of some highschool romance movie. Panned critically of course, but what do you know, people like junk food and junk TV and this turd becomes one of netflix's most successful original movies, which they've turned into a trilogy. This is the Lord of the Rings of 2021.
unknownus3r 5y ago
Gorgias
im_down_w_otp 5y ago
Reading this reminded me of one of the challenges with fundraising VC money, and that is... For the most part you're being judged against the best "bullshit" someone else can peddle. Which risks creating an incentive structure that's a race to the bottom of the manure pile.
- Nokinside 5y ago
  At the bottom there is a whole subgenre of startup cosplay. It's like a cultural scene where group of people, mostly young, sometimes older are hanging out and networking and acting "startup". These guys don't even have credible bullshit to get a meeting from real VC. Retired lonely rich tech guys (cosplaying Angel investors) and random big firms from time to time provide snacks and feed the scene.
  - im_down_w_otp 5y ago
    That sounds... depressing.
  - asdff 5y ago
    I thought HBO's silicon valley would be a wakeup call at the ridiculousness of this culture, but if anything people have doubled down.
  - iainctduncan 5y ago
    that is such a good description, I'll be repeating that one!
nucleogenesis 5y ago
Capitalism begets grifters as a matter of necessity. This arena might be reserved for compulsive liars and psychopaths were we not compelled by society to make ends meet regardless of whether or not the ends ethically justify the means. In this society, bullshitting is built-in at every level to some degree and being savvy in it can be the difference between subsisting and not.
- nomoreplease 5y ago
  > Capitalism begets grifters as a matter of necessity. While I don’t disagree, I expect there’s a substantially equivalent number of grifters under socialism as well
  - tehjoker 5y ago
    Depending on how the system is constructed, there's less financial incentive for it. Sure, the political arena might have some, but in theory you're supposed to try to weed those people out through the party. Nonetheless, I don't think you can characterize capitalist politicians as anything other than grifters or war mongers.
    - pnathan 5y ago
      Then the grift is to be a party hack and have the party arrange for a nice dacha for you, good schools for the kids. of course, you don't hardly make anything, the party provides, in its benevolence! edit: my point is that grifters show up in any particular structure. not to sling arrows at the USSR or the USA.
    - a9h74j 5y ago
      Not all incentives need be financial. Connections yield better schools, better housing, invitation to more cultural events, etc etc.
    - def_true_false 5y ago
      In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. It would be great if you people tried reading a history book for once. In particular, stories of people who believed these ideas were great and (despite a bunch of red flags) tried to act on that belief by immigrating to the Soviet Union in 1920s and 1930s, to help build the promised utopia. Spoiler alert: it doesn't end well for most of them.
RandomLensman 5y ago
In a world of quick solutions, elevator pitches and so forth, there will demand for summaries of summaries (of summaries). Dealing with the actual complexities is something that is often successfully trained away in the more recent generation of executives and leaders.
Applejinx 5y ago
I didn't know Adobe was LinkedIn o_O
micromacrofoot 5y ago
Seeing this on Adobe's domain is rich, they produce vasts amounts of Creative bullshit. They likely have hundreds of people with a job description can probably be distilled down into Creative bullshit.
Igelau 5y ago
> Group 1: People actually shipping ideas, launching businesses, doing creative work, taking risks and sharing first-hand learnings. > Group 2: People writing about group 1 in clear, concise, accessible language. > [And here rests the line of bullshit demarcation…] > Group 3: People aggregating the learnings of group 2, passing it off as first-hand wisdom. > Group 4: People aggregating the learnings of group 3, believing they are as worthy of praise as the people in group 1. > Groups 5+: And downward... Generalize this and reinforce it through a system of upvotes/downvotes and you have every the fate of every topical subreddit of any considerable size.
- unraveller 5y ago
  It's bullshit all the way up. The nature of business necessitates info asymmetry, means you'll never find an honest group 1 individual (or a popular group 2), they're always angling, hyping, or associating with symbols as they trained themselves to. The closest there is to a philosopher businessman is probably Seneca, but maybe he was just a moralising game theorist ahead of his time like Taleb (who claims Sextus Empiricus laid it all out bare in terms of risk/belief).
esel2k 5y ago
If been collecting great posts ,book paragraphs, methods and own learnings from my jobs as well as templates I created along the way and wanted to put all of these things on a webpage. Of course my goal was to a)get better (if I can teach it or rewrite it I consider myself as mastering the topic) and b) to get visibility to ensure my career. Would this make me a bullshiter part of the complex described in the article?
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  Motivation behind your actions matters. If you are adding your own insights or mental explanations, I don't think that's wrong.
stakkur 5y ago
Spoiler alert: we’re all bullshitting our way through life, in one way or another.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
egypturnash 5y ago
Being quiet and slowly building mastery and expertise doesn’t pay off much at first. So many creatives must make a calculation: Do I want the short term, could-go-viral-at-any-second thrill of being a vocal expert in my field? Or am I more content playing the long game? I’ve been playing the long game for longer than “social media” has been a word. It helps to have a lot of financial resources that I can burn while I continue to labor in obscurity. I have no desire to position myself as An Expert, nor to do the shit involved in chasing social media success (I like big slow projects made to satisfy myself, not quick stuff you can crank out daily and repeatedly pivot towards whatever gets the most traction), but I sure can see how that’s super tempting. If I didn’t have the financial cushions I do I’d have swallowed my pride and taken that bullshit path long ago just to try and survive.
karaterobot 5y ago
This is a feature of the internet publishing model crossed with the social media marketing model: people believe they need followers to advance their career, and websites need content to feed the hungry click monster. I see the same phenomenon in other domains I pay attention to. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, it may be a bit worse in the creative world, since there are so many more people in it looking for a leg up.
AlbertCory 5y ago
A misconception: commenters seem to be hearing OP's message as "quit your job and work on your own for the good of humanity." He's not demanding that of you. That would indeed get you out of the B-IC, but it's not necessary. You can gain genuine Group 1 expertise at a FAANG company (or any other). It may take years, but when you write about real lessons you've learned, that will not be bullshit.
nixpulvis 5y ago
> And when you make choices based on what others will think about you, you lose yourself along the way, and the world loses another creative mind that would otherwise share something original. I like it, but YMMV.
madrox 5y ago
I completely agree with this article. However, in a more generous sense, bullshitters are not that different from sixth grade science teachers. I don't think my first biology teacher ever did deep work in his field. However, that didn't stop me from hanging on every word, because, let's face it, he made the topic interesting for me.
hamburgerwah 5y ago
It is truly a feat of irony that this is hosted at adobe

174 points by vitabenes 5y ago

arthurcolle 5y ago

Pretty progressive of a publicly traded company to use profanity in their blog, I dig it! What is 99u?

stagger87 5y ago
https://99u.adobe.com/about https://99u.adobe.com/about
Slow_Hand 5y ago
Is there a common, non-profane, synonym for bullshit? I can't think of another word that conveys the same mixture of useless, deceptive, meritless, propaganda. While some may object to the use of profanity in a public space, I think such a reaction is fitting for the nature of bullshit. It SHOULD be repellent when invoked. A big, disgusting, load of crap that nobody should tolerate in their presence. I think bullshit captures the spirit of the term perfectly.
- jarjoura 5y ago
  "load of crap" seems like the perfect synonym to me. Less provocative of a title, but there's other words that can convey the same.
- reilly3000 5y ago
  Hogwash Poppycock Nonsense Rubbish Ya none of these quite hit like Bullshit.
- BoxOfRain 5y ago
  "Bollocks" is a little less severe than "bullshit" in British English, but that word is still considered swearing by some. I agree that bullshit is the perfect word to describe the subject, it's a vulgar word because it causes a vulgar reaction when you experience it. Using a non-profane word would just dilute it.

yboris 5y ago

Video embedded in the article doesn't work, so here's the direct link: https://vimeo.com/167796382 https://vimeo.com/167796382

yboris 5y ago

The essay / book (from the posted link) "On Bullshit" Harry Frankfurt is an excellent short read. Here is the link to the book and PDF: https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691122946/on-bullshit https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691122946/on... http://www2.csudh.edu/ccauthen/576f12/frankfurt__harry_-_on_bullshit.pdf http://www2.csudh.edu/ccauthen/576f12/frankfurt__harry_-_on_...

tppiotrowski 5y ago

Reading about Galileo, Newton, and others when I was young, I felt that they came from means or had the means to do 'deep' work. Until you have the means, the Bullshit Industrial Complex seems like the rational path to follow. It gets attention which gets you paid. I wish all programmers with a healthy bank account and vested stock quit their FAANG jobs and did research or worked on personal projects. But there is greater external validation in saying you work at FAANG vs. I'm working on some highly technical topic only .01% of people will ever care about. Edit: I 'ass'umed why people don't do quiet research/building when they have the money but would love to hear first hand reasons.

munchbunny 5y ago
A lot of FAANG programmers are people who "work to live". Even with the financial means, the freedom to do what they want isn't necessarily something they value very heavily. Instead, it's a steady 9 to 5 and they have time for family, friends, and hobbies, and they're content with that. Also important to note though: while FAANG pays well, it doesn't pay so well that you can consistently retire at 35 unless you pay very close attention to your wealth management. If I had financial independence, I'd try to become a teacher. Unfortunately, even fully vested, I'm a good ways out from financial independence.
- tppiotrowski 5y ago
  I think I picture "freedom to do what I want" as a studio apartment with a laptop, an internet connection and a library card needing something like $30K a year. So I think for every year I make $150K I can take ~3 years off. Everyones situation is different. Hope you get to teach some day.
  - tayo42 5y ago
    Your going to live in a studio doing nothing but hack on a laptop for the rest of your life? No other things to do discover or try? No people in your life?
    - 5y ago

KittenInABox 5y ago

One of the difficulties about being a creative is that bullshit is often required to earn enough to live off of. When you write a book, you may spend a very long time to write the work, then you spend a long time editing the book. Once it's actually purchased, your advance doesn't come in all at once but actually is split into 3/4 payments over the course of potentially 2 years. So if you get a 20k advance, you're actually only getting much less than that per payment. You have to then make up that shortfall with talks, interviews, patreon, and access to you in general as a published author which puts you in an authority position for advice. Unless you make it to well above bestseller level, and potentially even then, you have to participate in the bullshit pyramid described here if you want to be able to afford a living + paying your own healthcare.

rikroots 5y ago
I solved this problem by deciding early on that the only way for me to get creative stuff done, and to enjoy myself while getting creative stuff done, was to treat my creative endeavours as hobbies rather than income streams. Turns out you don't need to be a full time Poet, toiling away at the academic coalface 24/7/365, to have fun writing and sharing poems.
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  Same. Creative writing was my own creative outlet after a long day spent doing IT.

elefanten 5y ago

Article was fine. Nodded along to parts of it. Then, hilariously, came the spread of card links below: -Obsessed: Building a Brand People Love from Day One -How to Build a Brand—From Anywhere—by Embracing Your Surroundings -99U Conference Speaker Spotlight: Alain Sylvain on the Ever-Changing, Infinite Pursuit of Creativity It's almost like they were trying to prove this article's point by immediately hitting you with a bunch of "bullshit"

nomoreplease 5y ago
I noticed this too! Thought it was a random advertisement that I happened to receive in perfect irony. The irony is even richer since it’s being shown to everyone
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
shantnutiwari 5y ago
This is not suprising-- we've seen articles moaning about too many invasive ads on sites with hundreds of invasive ads. As always, the person who writes the article has nothing to do with the rest of the marketing team, for whom its business as usual

RGamma 5y ago

Yeah, it's become bad from a reader/viewer/listener/player standpoint as well. I've been waiting for the media torrent/general market oversaturation to die down, but the moment never comes. Until then I rely on personal recommendations, such as occasionally in the comments here. Store fronts, autosuggestions and viral stuff are a lottery not least due to many gaming the metrics and sheer volume of submissions; I don't really bother anymore and hope the pearls make their way to me anyway (or remain findable somewhere).

asdff 5y ago
There was a point a few decades ago where we took the expert individual out of decisionmaking and favored whatever we have today. A director like spielberg today would never have had the independence he enjoyed early in his career. It just wouldn't be possible anymore because of the mechanisms we have constructed in order to ensure we select the most generally engaging product out of the pile. Engaging rarely means good, an example is netflix's new cash cow "The Kissing Game" which started as a terrible terrible movie covering every cliche you can expect out of some highschool romance movie. Panned critically of course, but what do you know, people like junk food and junk TV and this turd becomes one of netflix's most successful original movies, which they've turned into a trilogy. This is the Lord of the Rings of 2021.

unknownus3r 5y ago

Gorgias

im_down_w_otp 5y ago

Reading this reminded me of one of the challenges with fundraising VC money, and that is... For the most part you're being judged against the best "bullshit" someone else can peddle. Which risks creating an incentive structure that's a race to the bottom of the manure pile.

Nokinside 5y ago
At the bottom there is a whole subgenre of startup cosplay. It's like a cultural scene where group of people, mostly young, sometimes older are hanging out and networking and acting "startup". These guys don't even have credible bullshit to get a meeting from real VC. Retired lonely rich tech guys (cosplaying Angel investors) and random big firms from time to time provide snacks and feed the scene.
- im_down_w_otp 5y ago
  That sounds... depressing.
- asdff 5y ago
  I thought HBO's silicon valley would be a wakeup call at the ridiculousness of this culture, but if anything people have doubled down.
- iainctduncan 5y ago
  that is such a good description, I'll be repeating that one!

nucleogenesis 5y ago

Capitalism begets grifters as a matter of necessity. This arena might be reserved for compulsive liars and psychopaths were we not compelled by society to make ends meet regardless of whether or not the ends ethically justify the means. In this society, bullshitting is built-in at every level to some degree and being savvy in it can be the difference between subsisting and not.

nomoreplease 5y ago
> Capitalism begets grifters as a matter of necessity. While I don’t disagree, I expect there’s a substantially equivalent number of grifters under socialism as well
- tehjoker 5y ago
  Depending on how the system is constructed, there's less financial incentive for it. Sure, the political arena might have some, but in theory you're supposed to try to weed those people out through the party. Nonetheless, I don't think you can characterize capitalist politicians as anything other than grifters or war mongers.
  - pnathan 5y ago
    Then the grift is to be a party hack and have the party arrange for a nice dacha for you, good schools for the kids. of course, you don't hardly make anything, the party provides, in its benevolence! edit: my point is that grifters show up in any particular structure. not to sling arrows at the USSR or the USA.
  - a9h74j 5y ago
    Not all incentives need be financial. Connections yield better schools, better housing, invitation to more cultural events, etc etc.
  - def_true_false 5y ago
    In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. It would be great if you people tried reading a history book for once. In particular, stories of people who believed these ideas were great and (despite a bunch of red flags) tried to act on that belief by immigrating to the Soviet Union in 1920s and 1930s, to help build the promised utopia. Spoiler alert: it doesn't end well for most of them.

RandomLensman 5y ago

In a world of quick solutions, elevator pitches and so forth, there will demand for summaries of summaries (of summaries). Dealing with the actual complexities is something that is often successfully trained away in the more recent generation of executives and leaders.

Applejinx 5y ago

I didn't know Adobe was LinkedIn o_O

micromacrofoot 5y ago

Seeing this on Adobe's domain is rich, they produce vasts amounts of Creative bullshit. They likely have hundreds of people with a job description can probably be distilled down into Creative bullshit.

Igelau 5y ago

> Group 1: People actually shipping ideas, launching businesses, doing creative work, taking risks and sharing first-hand learnings. > Group 2: People writing about group 1 in clear, concise, accessible language. > [And here rests the line of bullshit demarcation…] > Group 3: People aggregating the learnings of group 2, passing it off as first-hand wisdom. > Group 4: People aggregating the learnings of group 3, believing they are as worthy of praise as the people in group 1. > Groups 5+: And downward... Generalize this and reinforce it through a system of upvotes/downvotes and you have every the fate of every topical subreddit of any considerable size.

unraveller 5y ago
It's bullshit all the way up. The nature of business necessitates info asymmetry, means you'll never find an honest group 1 individual (or a popular group 2), they're always angling, hyping, or associating with symbols as they trained themselves to. The closest there is to a philosopher businessman is probably Seneca, but maybe he was just a moralising game theorist ahead of his time like Taleb (who claims Sextus Empiricus laid it all out bare in terms of risk/belief).

esel2k 5y ago

If been collecting great posts ,book paragraphs, methods and own learnings from my jobs as well as templates I created along the way and wanted to put all of these things on a webpage. Of course my goal was to a)get better (if I can teach it or rewrite it I consider myself as mastering the topic) and b) to get visibility to ensure my career. Would this make me a bullshiter part of the complex described in the article?

selfhoster11 5y ago
Motivation behind your actions matters. If you are adding your own insights or mental explanations, I don't think that's wrong.

stakkur 5y ago

Spoiler alert: we’re all bullshitting our way through life, in one way or another.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

egypturnash 5y ago

Being quiet and slowly building mastery and expertise doesn’t pay off much at first. So many creatives must make a calculation: Do I want the short term, could-go-viral-at-any-second thrill of being a vocal expert in my field? Or am I more content playing the long game? I’ve been playing the long game for longer than “social media” has been a word. It helps to have a lot of financial resources that I can burn while I continue to labor in obscurity. I have no desire to position myself as An Expert, nor to do the shit involved in chasing social media success (I like big slow projects made to satisfy myself, not quick stuff you can crank out daily and repeatedly pivot towards whatever gets the most traction), but I sure can see how that’s super tempting. If I didn’t have the financial cushions I do I’d have swallowed my pride and taken that bullshit path long ago just to try and survive.

karaterobot 5y ago

This is a feature of the internet publishing model crossed with the social media marketing model: people believe they need followers to advance their career, and websites need content to feed the hungry click monster. I see the same phenomenon in other domains I pay attention to. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, it may be a bit worse in the creative world, since there are so many more people in it looking for a leg up.

AlbertCory 5y ago

A misconception: commenters seem to be hearing OP's message as "quit your job and work on your own for the good of humanity." He's not demanding that of you. That would indeed get you out of the B-IC, but it's not necessary. You can gain genuine Group 1 expertise at a FAANG company (or any other). It may take years, but when you write about real lessons you've learned, that will not be bullshit.

nixpulvis 5y ago

> And when you make choices based on what others will think about you, you lose yourself along the way, and the world loses another creative mind that would otherwise share something original. I like it, but YMMV.

madrox 5y ago

I completely agree with this article. However, in a more generous sense, bullshitters are not that different from sixth grade science teachers. I don't think my first biology teacher ever did deep work in his field. However, that didn't stop me from hanging on every word, because, let's face it, he made the topic interesting for me.

hamburgerwah 5y ago

It is truly a feat of irony that this is hosted at adobe