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I find it strange that Bosch doesn't put grinders in their dishwashers, they certainly do have a good reputation. Why don't they? I happen to be looking for a

I find it strange that Bosch doesn't put grinders in their dishwashers, they certainly do have a good reputation. Why don't they? I happen to be looking for a dishwasher now. Mine is having problems after 8 years (it's from IKEA, probably a rebranded Whirlpool). It has a grinder, but it the upper deck is no longer getting clean because the upper spinnning thing is no longer spinning and flinging water, I think. Also the plastic bits and gasket are starting to deteriorate. Any recs for a good dishwasher? I'm looking for something that will last 10+ years.

steffan 5y ago
Asko, without question. I've had three (in three different houses) and they've always been fantastic. Current one is rebadged as a Viking. I would definitely buy another one. First one I actually removed and reinstalled in another house. That one lasted over 10 years and is probably still running.
dotancohen 5y ago
Just remove the upper propeller and clean the friction surface with a sponge. It probably has gunk or calcium or detergent built up on it. While you're at it, clean the water connection mating surface between the upper drawer and the back of the dishwasher. If there's gunk there water will squirt out and the propeller will have less water pressure. A gopro is a great tool for checking that both propellers are spinning properly.
joezydeco 5y ago
Why don't they? Energy consumption. No grinder means the whole system can be driven by the pump motor alone which uses less power. Simpler (cheaper) construction as well. the upper spinning thing is no longer spinning The sprayer arms aren't driven by motors, they're driven by the force of the water coming out. So that means you probably have food particles stuck in the ports where water comes out. I'd remove the arm and clean it by hand. Use a toothpick to open up the ports.
- jmuhlich 5y ago
  Also if the upper tray is height-adjustable, check the rubber one-way valve flaps in the middle of the supply tube that runs up the inside rear wall of the basin. If any of those flaps are damaged or missing, water will leak out there instead of being directed to the spray arm depending on which height position you're using. If you're lucky, you might still have one usable height position without replacing anything. Otherwise you need a whole new supply tube ($60-100) as the rubber part doesn't seem to be sold separately.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
elric 5y ago
They're illegal where I live (Belgium). So I suspect they're at the very least not a universal thing.
- seszett 5y ago
  Reading the comments here, I think we generally use dishwashers quite differently in Europe than they do in the US. I'm French, in Belgium, with an Italian dishwater that doesn't have a grinder (didn't even know that this existed) and I simply don't leave anything that could have to be ground on my dishes. I do have to clean the filter once in a while, but I just don't leave on my dishes anything that could be scrapped beforehand. I don't prewash them or do anything special, but I don't leave solid waste on my dishes either.
  - crispyambulance 5y ago
    I think the grinder is a matter of convenience. It means there is no filter to change, ever. I've never actually had a dishwasher with a filter. I don't even know where it is located! If the filter were very easy to reach/remove/clean/replace, I would consider the benefits of a dishwasher without a grinder.
michael1999 5y ago
Parts for the whirlpool are easy to find if you use the model number on the door. Replacing the upper arm is a 20 minute job, and lots of the part sites have instructional videos now. I'm 21 years into a crappy GE.
throwaway09223 5y ago
> Why don't they? Another guess might be noise. Grinders are noisy and Bosch dishwashers are dead silent. I have a Benchmark series Bosch and it cleans dishes better than any I've ever had. I think a major factor is the built-in water softener. I have hard water, and soft water is key for allowing detergents to properly work.
bserge 5y ago
Beko, Indesit, Hotpoint, even Whirlpoop. Samsung and LG are surprisingly good until the electronics fail (very hard to find, expensive new). Miele are great but again, problems with part availability. Though they rarely break. Bosch/Siemens dishwashers are frankly, garbage. Dumbass metal/plastic construction (the plastic will crack and leak at the back), smartass inlet sensor that will fail, board at the bottom that will be taken out when it floods, overly sensitive drain and turbidity sensors, and the damn heater is a piece of shit. They thought they were so smart using a flat wire heater (as found in many bottom heating kettles) but it fails very, very often and is expensive as hell even second hand if you can find one. This basic construction hasn't changed for over a decade now, just like with most appliances. Strange, since their washing machines are great and dryers are OK. I personally like Beko, which many shit on - no frills, no bullshit dishwashers using easily available parts (shared with other brands), really easy to fix. They work as well as any other brand, the water pressure is one of the most important things and theirs is always good. Preferably the higher end models with built in fans, screen, they're better built than the cheap models. Source: worked on thousands of them.

steffan 5y ago

Asko, without question. I've had three (in three different houses) and they've always been fantastic. Current one is rebadged as a Viking. I would definitely buy another one. First one I actually removed and reinstalled in another house. That one lasted over 10 years and is probably still running.

dotancohen 5y ago

Just remove the upper propeller and clean the friction surface with a sponge. It probably has gunk or calcium or detergent built up on it. While you're at it, clean the water connection mating surface between the upper drawer and the back of the dishwasher. If there's gunk there water will squirt out and the propeller will have less water pressure. A gopro is a great tool for checking that both propellers are spinning properly.

joezydeco 5y ago

Why don't they? Energy consumption. No grinder means the whole system can be driven by the pump motor alone which uses less power. Simpler (cheaper) construction as well. the upper spinning thing is no longer spinning The sprayer arms aren't driven by motors, they're driven by the force of the water coming out. So that means you probably have food particles stuck in the ports where water comes out. I'd remove the arm and clean it by hand. Use a toothpick to open up the ports.

jmuhlich 5y ago
Also if the upper tray is height-adjustable, check the rubber one-way valve flaps in the middle of the supply tube that runs up the inside rear wall of the basin. If any of those flaps are damaged or missing, water will leak out there instead of being directed to the spray arm depending on which height position you're using. If you're lucky, you might still have one usable height position without replacing anything. Otherwise you need a whole new supply tube ($60-100) as the rubber part doesn't seem to be sold separately.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

elric 5y ago

They're illegal where I live (Belgium). So I suspect they're at the very least not a universal thing.

seszett 5y ago
Reading the comments here, I think we generally use dishwashers quite differently in Europe than they do in the US. I'm French, in Belgium, with an Italian dishwater that doesn't have a grinder (didn't even know that this existed) and I simply don't leave anything that could have to be ground on my dishes. I do have to clean the filter once in a while, but I just don't leave on my dishes anything that could be scrapped beforehand. I don't prewash them or do anything special, but I don't leave solid waste on my dishes either.
- crispyambulance 5y ago
  I think the grinder is a matter of convenience. It means there is no filter to change, ever. I've never actually had a dishwasher with a filter. I don't even know where it is located! If the filter were very easy to reach/remove/clean/replace, I would consider the benefits of a dishwasher without a grinder.

michael1999 5y ago

Parts for the whirlpool are easy to find if you use the model number on the door. Replacing the upper arm is a 20 minute job, and lots of the part sites have instructional videos now. I'm 21 years into a crappy GE.

throwaway09223 5y ago

> Why don't they? Another guess might be noise. Grinders are noisy and Bosch dishwashers are dead silent. I have a Benchmark series Bosch and it cleans dishes better than any I've ever had. I think a major factor is the built-in water softener. I have hard water, and soft water is key for allowing detergents to properly work.

bserge 5y ago

Beko, Indesit, Hotpoint, even Whirlpoop. Samsung and LG are surprisingly good until the electronics fail (very hard to find, expensive new). Miele are great but again, problems with part availability. Though they rarely break. Bosch/Siemens dishwashers are frankly, garbage. Dumbass metal/plastic construction (the plastic will crack and leak at the back), smartass inlet sensor that will fail, board at the bottom that will be taken out when it floods, overly sensitive drain and turbidity sensors, and the damn heater is a piece of shit. They thought they were so smart using a flat wire heater (as found in many bottom heating kettles) but it fails very, very often and is expensive as hell even second hand if you can find one. This basic construction hasn't changed for over a decade now, just like with most appliances. Strange, since their washing machines are great and dryers are OK. I personally like Beko, which many shit on - no frills, no bullshit dishwashers using easily available parts (shared with other brands), really easy to fix. They work as well as any other brand, the water pressure is one of the most important things and theirs is always good. Preferably the higher end models with built in fans, screen, they're better built than the cheap models. Source: worked on thousands of them.