3 ms·

True. But I fear China more.

by dcl 5y ago

mushbino 5y ago
Extraordinary rendition, CIA, regime change, foreign invasions. Compare US to China, please
- Proven 5y ago
  Multiple kidnappings of Hong Kong citizens, regime change in Hong Kong, widespread support for authocratic, corrupt regimes in Africa and Asia, invasions or conflicts with of Tibet, India, Vietnam, decades of violations against multiple countries and of international law in the South China Sea. Satisfied?
- arthurcolle 5y ago
  Uyghur torture + concentration camps, Falun Gong forced vivisections, no free floating currency, domination of the public discourse via explicit propaganda, absurd social controls like 'no more than 3 hrs of video games', implicit eugenics policies via 1 child policy. Repeated and ongoing aggressions against other countries that have states that wish for their own independence. I wish for my own independence from the disgusting abuses from global states, so I sympathize with Hong Kong. China is definitely pretty bad. Wait, only a few of those things are exclusive to China. Weird... you're right. Maybe let's do away with states while we're waxing poetic. EDIT: I can't even fathom the confusion of ideas that would lead you to being pro-China when the ongoing current abuses are so expansive, but whatever works for you!
  - prox 5y ago
    Cultural Revolution : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution#Humanitarian_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution#Humanitari...
    - arthurcolle 5y ago
      I am aware of this, what are you trying to achieve with this statement?
      - prox 5y ago
        Just adding to your list, no worries.
        arthurcolle 5y ago
        Thanks, gotcha!
- tablespoon 5y ago
  >> True. But I fear China more. > Extraordinary rendition, CIA, regime change, foreign invasions. Compare US to China, please The PRC is explicitly opposed to a lot of basic values nearly all Westerners care a great deal about: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/20/world/asia/chinas-new-leadership-takes-hard-line-in-secret-memo.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/20/world/asia/chinas-new-lea... For the most part, US foreign policy broadly attempts to promote and spread those values, though there are some notable areas where it disregarded them or failed (though to properly see those, you sometimes have to look at the big picture).
  - luckylion 5y ago
    "For the most part, US foreign policy broadly pretends to promote and spread those values" I think is more accurate. I'm not sure it matters if China is opposed to my basic values but doesn't do anything about it, and the US isn't opposed to my basic values, but kidnaps and tortures me for a few years because I've grown a beard and went on a pilgrimage to Pakistan.
    - tablespoon 5y ago
      > "For the most part, US foreign policy broadly pretends to promote and spread those values" No, it's not "pretend." For instance the US just sunk something like 2 trillion dollars trying to build a democracy in Afghanistan, and you don't blow 2 trillion on anything you're only pretending to do (and if you think it's some conspiracy to line the pockets of defense contractors, there are far more efficient ways of doing that and it wouldn't have stopped). > I'm not sure it matters if China is opposed to my basic values but doesn't do anything about it, and the US isn't opposed to my basic values, but kidnaps and tortures me for a few years because I've grown a beard and went on a pilgrimage to Pakistan. You think China doesn't do that? I mean having "grown a beard and went on a pilgrimage to Pakistan" is a literally entry criteria to get sent to a camp in Xinjiang. Also: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48634136 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48634136 https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/04/world/europe/repression-uyghurs-belarus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/04/world/europe/repression-u... https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/10/world/asia/china-canada-spavor-kovrig.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/10/world/asia/china-canada-s...
caoilte 5y ago
Understandable given the media climate whipped up by the military industrial complex.

True. But I fear China more.

by dcl 5y ago

True. But I fear China more.

mushbino 5y ago

Extraordinary rendition, CIA, regime change, foreign invasions. Compare US to China, please

Proven 5y ago
Multiple kidnappings of Hong Kong citizens, regime change in Hong Kong, widespread support for authocratic, corrupt regimes in Africa and Asia, invasions or conflicts with of Tibet, India, Vietnam, decades of violations against multiple countries and of international law in the South China Sea. Satisfied?
arthurcolle 5y ago
Uyghur torture + concentration camps, Falun Gong forced vivisections, no free floating currency, domination of the public discourse via explicit propaganda, absurd social controls like 'no more than 3 hrs of video games', implicit eugenics policies via 1 child policy. Repeated and ongoing aggressions against other countries that have states that wish for their own independence. I wish for my own independence from the disgusting abuses from global states, so I sympathize with Hong Kong. China is definitely pretty bad. Wait, only a few of those things are exclusive to China. Weird... you're right. Maybe let's do away with states while we're waxing poetic. EDIT: I can't even fathom the confusion of ideas that would lead you to being pro-China when the ongoing current abuses are so expansive, but whatever works for you!
- prox 5y ago
  Cultural Revolution : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution#Humanitarian_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution#Humanitari...
  - arthurcolle 5y ago
    I am aware of this, what are you trying to achieve with this statement?
    - prox 5y ago
      Just adding to your list, no worries.
      - arthurcolle 5y ago
        Thanks, gotcha!
tablespoon 5y ago
>> True. But I fear China more. > Extraordinary rendition, CIA, regime change, foreign invasions. Compare US to China, please The PRC is explicitly opposed to a lot of basic values nearly all Westerners care a great deal about: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/20/world/asia/chinas-new-leadership-takes-hard-line-in-secret-memo.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/20/world/asia/chinas-new-lea... For the most part, US foreign policy broadly attempts to promote and spread those values, though there are some notable areas where it disregarded them or failed (though to properly see those, you sometimes have to look at the big picture).
- luckylion 5y ago
  "For the most part, US foreign policy broadly pretends to promote and spread those values" I think is more accurate. I'm not sure it matters if China is opposed to my basic values but doesn't do anything about it, and the US isn't opposed to my basic values, but kidnaps and tortures me for a few years because I've grown a beard and went on a pilgrimage to Pakistan.
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    > "For the most part, US foreign policy broadly pretends to promote and spread those values" No, it's not "pretend." For instance the US just sunk something like 2 trillion dollars trying to build a democracy in Afghanistan, and you don't blow 2 trillion on anything you're only pretending to do (and if you think it's some conspiracy to line the pockets of defense contractors, there are far more efficient ways of doing that and it wouldn't have stopped). > I'm not sure it matters if China is opposed to my basic values but doesn't do anything about it, and the US isn't opposed to my basic values, but kidnaps and tortures me for a few years because I've grown a beard and went on a pilgrimage to Pakistan. You think China doesn't do that? I mean having "grown a beard and went on a pilgrimage to Pakistan" is a literally entry criteria to get sent to a camp in Xinjiang. Also: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48634136 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48634136 https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/04/world/europe/repression-uyghurs-belarus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/04/world/europe/repression-u... https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/10/world/asia/china-canada-spavor-kovrig.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/10/world/asia/china-canada-s...

caoilte 5y ago

Understandable given the media climate whipped up by the military industrial complex.