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> Chilling, and I suspect that western governments will do very little to prevent this kind of extra-territorial control exerted by the CCP. The US literally l

> Chilling, and I suspect that western governments will do very little to prevent this kind of extra-territorial control exerted by the CCP. The US literally locks down countries that they think misbehave.

L33tCrown 5y ago
Your isn't a valuable comment to this news, whataboutism is a very poor rhetoric.
dcl 5y ago
True. But I fear China more.
- mushbino 5y ago
  Extraordinary rendition, CIA, regime change, foreign invasions. Compare US to China, please
  - Proven 5y ago
    Multiple kidnappings of Hong Kong citizens, regime change in Hong Kong, widespread support for authocratic, corrupt regimes in Africa and Asia, invasions or conflicts with of Tibet, India, Vietnam, decades of violations against multiple countries and of international law in the South China Sea. Satisfied?
  - arthurcolle 5y ago
    Uyghur torture + concentration camps, Falun Gong forced vivisections, no free floating currency, domination of the public discourse via explicit propaganda, absurd social controls like 'no more than 3 hrs of video games', implicit eugenics policies via 1 child policy. Repeated and ongoing aggressions against other countries that have states that wish for their own independence. I wish for my own independence from the disgusting abuses from global states, so I sympathize with Hong Kong. China is definitely pretty bad. Wait, only a few of those things are exclusive to China. Weird... you're right. Maybe let's do away with states while we're waxing poetic. EDIT: I can't even fathom the confusion of ideas that would lead you to being pro-China when the ongoing current abuses are so expansive, but whatever works for you!
    - prox 5y ago
      Cultural Revolution : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution#Humanitarian_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution#Humanitari...
      - arthurcolle 5y ago
        I am aware of this, what are you trying to achieve with this statement?
        prox 5y ago
        Just adding to your list, no worries.
        arthurcolle 5y ago
        Thanks, gotcha!
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    >> True. But I fear China more. > Extraordinary rendition, CIA, regime change, foreign invasions. Compare US to China, please The PRC is explicitly opposed to a lot of basic values nearly all Westerners care a great deal about: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/20/world/asia/chinas-new-leadership-takes-hard-line-in-secret-memo.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/20/world/asia/chinas-new-lea... For the most part, US foreign policy broadly attempts to promote and spread those values, though there are some notable areas where it disregarded them or failed (though to properly see those, you sometimes have to look at the big picture).
    - luckylion 5y ago
      "For the most part, US foreign policy broadly pretends to promote and spread those values" I think is more accurate. I'm not sure it matters if China is opposed to my basic values but doesn't do anything about it, and the US isn't opposed to my basic values, but kidnaps and tortures me for a few years because I've grown a beard and went on a pilgrimage to Pakistan.
      - tablespoon 5y ago
        > "For the most part, US foreign policy broadly pretends to promote and spread those values" No, it's not "pretend." For instance the US just sunk something like 2 trillion dollars trying to build a democracy in Afghanistan, and you don't blow 2 trillion on anything you're only pretending to do (and if you think it's some conspiracy to line the pockets of defense contractors, there are far more efficient ways of doing that and it wouldn't have stopped). > I'm not sure it matters if China is opposed to my basic values but doesn't do anything about it, and the US isn't opposed to my basic values, but kidnaps and tortures me for a few years because I've grown a beard and went on a pilgrimage to Pakistan. You think China doesn't do that? I mean having "grown a beard and went on a pilgrimage to Pakistan" is a literally entry criteria to get sent to a camp in Xinjiang. Also: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48634136 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48634136 https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/04/world/europe/repression-uyghurs-belarus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/04/world/europe/repression-u... https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/10/world/asia/china-canada-spavor-kovrig.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/10/world/asia/china-canada-s...
- caoilte 5y ago
  Understandable given the media climate whipped up by the military industrial complex.
willis936 5y ago
I'm not a country. I'm not worried about Uncle Sam taking me down for (1A) protected speech. I am worried about China taking me out for comments like this.
- beambot 5y ago
  You familiar with McCarthyism?
  - jeswin 5y ago
    Yeah. What about it?
    - skrebbel 5y ago
      Not GP, but I think the point made was that McCarthyism is precedent of US citizens getting into serious trouble because of things they said. It's a counter-example to the assumption that the US government will protect its citizens' free speech.
      - true_religion 5y ago
        While it’s true that the US used to be much more intrusive about policing “seditious” speech, it’s also true that this occurred a long time ago. McCarthyism ended in around 1962. During this era, homosexuality was still illegal, abortions were punished with prison time, and people with varying skin complexions still couldn’t drink from the same water fountains. In terms of social progress, McCarthyism was only acceptable to a society totally alien to the one we live in today.
        RyEgswuCsn 5y ago
        I'd argue McCarthyism ended not because the US has "progressed" socially, but because the US had won the Cold War and there has not been a "worthy adversary" for the US until the rise of China. I wouldn't be surprised if the US start to make the life of China sympathizers difficult in near future if China becomes more competitive.
the_optimist 5y ago
The US establishment has wholly abandoned historic ideals in favor of a new era that aligns with much of what you'd see in Chinese governance. We in fact witness below US citizens faithful to the Party who devotedly support this act because they believe this individual has infringed upon the propriety of their Party.
zwaps 5y ago
Many people here are not from the US. Why do you whatabout the US? Maybe we want interference from neither country?

L33tCrown 5y ago

Your isn't a valuable comment to this news, whataboutism is a very poor rhetoric.

dcl 5y ago

True. But I fear China more.

mushbino 5y ago
Extraordinary rendition, CIA, regime change, foreign invasions. Compare US to China, please
- Proven 5y ago
  Multiple kidnappings of Hong Kong citizens, regime change in Hong Kong, widespread support for authocratic, corrupt regimes in Africa and Asia, invasions or conflicts with of Tibet, India, Vietnam, decades of violations against multiple countries and of international law in the South China Sea. Satisfied?
- arthurcolle 5y ago
  Uyghur torture + concentration camps, Falun Gong forced vivisections, no free floating currency, domination of the public discourse via explicit propaganda, absurd social controls like 'no more than 3 hrs of video games', implicit eugenics policies via 1 child policy. Repeated and ongoing aggressions against other countries that have states that wish for their own independence. I wish for my own independence from the disgusting abuses from global states, so I sympathize with Hong Kong. China is definitely pretty bad. Wait, only a few of those things are exclusive to China. Weird... you're right. Maybe let's do away with states while we're waxing poetic. EDIT: I can't even fathom the confusion of ideas that would lead you to being pro-China when the ongoing current abuses are so expansive, but whatever works for you!
  - prox 5y ago
    Cultural Revolution : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution#Humanitarian_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution#Humanitari...
    - arthurcolle 5y ago
      I am aware of this, what are you trying to achieve with this statement?
      - prox 5y ago
        Just adding to your list, no worries.
        arthurcolle 5y ago
        Thanks, gotcha!
- tablespoon 5y ago
  >> True. But I fear China more. > Extraordinary rendition, CIA, regime change, foreign invasions. Compare US to China, please The PRC is explicitly opposed to a lot of basic values nearly all Westerners care a great deal about: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/20/world/asia/chinas-new-leadership-takes-hard-line-in-secret-memo.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/20/world/asia/chinas-new-lea... For the most part, US foreign policy broadly attempts to promote and spread those values, though there are some notable areas where it disregarded them or failed (though to properly see those, you sometimes have to look at the big picture).
  - luckylion 5y ago
    "For the most part, US foreign policy broadly pretends to promote and spread those values" I think is more accurate. I'm not sure it matters if China is opposed to my basic values but doesn't do anything about it, and the US isn't opposed to my basic values, but kidnaps and tortures me for a few years because I've grown a beard and went on a pilgrimage to Pakistan.
    - tablespoon 5y ago
      > "For the most part, US foreign policy broadly pretends to promote and spread those values" No, it's not "pretend." For instance the US just sunk something like 2 trillion dollars trying to build a democracy in Afghanistan, and you don't blow 2 trillion on anything you're only pretending to do (and if you think it's some conspiracy to line the pockets of defense contractors, there are far more efficient ways of doing that and it wouldn't have stopped). > I'm not sure it matters if China is opposed to my basic values but doesn't do anything about it, and the US isn't opposed to my basic values, but kidnaps and tortures me for a few years because I've grown a beard and went on a pilgrimage to Pakistan. You think China doesn't do that? I mean having "grown a beard and went on a pilgrimage to Pakistan" is a literally entry criteria to get sent to a camp in Xinjiang. Also: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48634136 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48634136 https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/04/world/europe/repression-uyghurs-belarus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/04/world/europe/repression-u... https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/10/world/asia/china-canada-spavor-kovrig.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/10/world/asia/china-canada-s...
caoilte 5y ago
Understandable given the media climate whipped up by the military industrial complex.

willis936 5y ago

I'm not a country. I'm not worried about Uncle Sam taking me down for (1A) protected speech. I am worried about China taking me out for comments like this.

beambot 5y ago
You familiar with McCarthyism?
- jeswin 5y ago
  Yeah. What about it?
  - skrebbel 5y ago
    Not GP, but I think the point made was that McCarthyism is precedent of US citizens getting into serious trouble because of things they said. It's a counter-example to the assumption that the US government will protect its citizens' free speech.
    - true_religion 5y ago
      While it’s true that the US used to be much more intrusive about policing “seditious” speech, it’s also true that this occurred a long time ago. McCarthyism ended in around 1962. During this era, homosexuality was still illegal, abortions were punished with prison time, and people with varying skin complexions still couldn’t drink from the same water fountains. In terms of social progress, McCarthyism was only acceptable to a society totally alien to the one we live in today.
      - RyEgswuCsn 5y ago
        I'd argue McCarthyism ended not because the US has "progressed" socially, but because the US had won the Cold War and there has not been a "worthy adversary" for the US until the rise of China. I wouldn't be surprised if the US start to make the life of China sympathizers difficult in near future if China becomes more competitive.

the_optimist 5y ago

The US establishment has wholly abandoned historic ideals in favor of a new era that aligns with much of what you'd see in Chinese governance. We in fact witness below US citizens faithful to the Party who devotedly support this act because they believe this individual has infringed upon the propriety of their Party.

zwaps 5y ago

Many people here are not from the US. Why do you whatabout the US? Maybe we want interference from neither country?