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I know of at least BlockFi, which is based out of New Jersey.

graeme 5y ago
Blockfi is facing action from multiple state securities regulators at the moment. Though, not the SEC. Do they have their own token and give interest on it? That seems to be the SEC’s issue with Coinbase’s proposal.
- nivertech 5y ago
  No, it doesn't matter who issued the USDC token, in fact it doesn't matter what assets are used to earn yield on. It can be any money surrogate/medium of exchange/barter instead of the actual money, e.g. orange groves. Any company offering a yield product is ticking all the boxes in the Howey Test[1], and therefore offering a a security. Only the banks have an exception for CDs. [1] Howey Test 1. An investment of money 2. In a common enterprise 3. With the expectation of profit 4. To be derived from the efforts of others https://twitter.com/prestonjbyrne/status/1435452184607576066 https://twitter.com/prestonjbyrne/status/1435452184607576066 https://twitter.com/nivertech/status/1435445880396685314 https://twitter.com/nivertech/status/1435445880396685314
  - alasdair_ 5y ago
    By this definition, a player playing at a craps table with other players all sharing the betting on the same outcome is in the process of creating a security each time they roll the dice. A husband who asks his wife to join him in paying the $25 to sign up for a joint bank account so that they get the free toaster is engaged in Security creation as well it seems. A club that buys newspapers collectively to cut out the coupons each club member wants meets all four of the criteria as well.
    - zarzavat 5y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_minimis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_minimis The law does not concern itself with trifles.
      - Dylan16807 5y ago
        Then what if the craps bets get really big, or all the numbers connected to the bank account get really big?
  - nivertech 5y ago
    TO: @alasdair_ (can't reply directly; thread is too nested?) > By this definition, a player playing at a craps table with other players all sharing the betting on the same outcome is in the process of creating a security each time they roll the dice. Where is the "efforts of others" - i.e. non-players? So far it's just a Cooperative (aka DAO in millennial-speak). > A husband who asks his wife to join him in paying the $25 to sign up for a joint bank account so that they get the free toaster is engaged in Security creation as well it seems Family isn't considered common enterprise. Also, where is the "efforts of others"? > A club that buys newspapers collectively to cut out the coupons each club member wants meets all four of the criteria as well. This is a border case, there were case where golf club membership or timeshare units where found to be securities. But there is also a consumptive utility, the question is do the club member actually read these newspapers, and does the value of coupons is sufficient "expectation of profit"? :) The problem here is the US legal system is principle-based, not rule-based. So there is never a legal clarity. That's the disadvantage. But it also makes it anti-fragile and future-proof.
    - dwohnitmok 5y ago
      > (can't reply directly. thread is too nested?) The deeper a thread is nested, the longer the cool-off period before you can directly respond to a reply. You probably could respond now.

Blockfi is facing action from multiple state securities regulators at the moment. Though, not the SEC. Do they have their own token and give interest on it? That seems to be the SEC’s issue with Coinbase’s proposal.

nivertech 5y ago
No, it doesn't matter who issued the USDC token, in fact it doesn't matter what assets are used to earn yield on. It can be any money surrogate/medium of exchange/barter instead of the actual money, e.g. orange groves. Any company offering a yield product is ticking all the boxes in the Howey Test[1], and therefore offering a a security. Only the banks have an exception for CDs. [1] Howey Test 1. An investment of money 2. In a common enterprise 3. With the expectation of profit 4. To be derived from the efforts of others https://twitter.com/prestonjbyrne/status/1435452184607576066 https://twitter.com/prestonjbyrne/status/1435452184607576066 https://twitter.com/nivertech/status/1435445880396685314 https://twitter.com/nivertech/status/1435445880396685314
- alasdair_ 5y ago
  By this definition, a player playing at a craps table with other players all sharing the betting on the same outcome is in the process of creating a security each time they roll the dice. A husband who asks his wife to join him in paying the $25 to sign up for a joint bank account so that they get the free toaster is engaged in Security creation as well it seems. A club that buys newspapers collectively to cut out the coupons each club member wants meets all four of the criteria as well.
  - zarzavat 5y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_minimis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_minimis The law does not concern itself with trifles.
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      Then what if the craps bets get really big, or all the numbers connected to the bank account get really big?
- nivertech 5y ago
  TO: @alasdair_ (can't reply directly; thread is too nested?) > By this definition, a player playing at a craps table with other players all sharing the betting on the same outcome is in the process of creating a security each time they roll the dice. Where is the "efforts of others" - i.e. non-players? So far it's just a Cooperative (aka DAO in millennial-speak). > A husband who asks his wife to join him in paying the $25 to sign up for a joint bank account so that they get the free toaster is engaged in Security creation as well it seems Family isn't considered common enterprise. Also, where is the "efforts of others"? > A club that buys newspapers collectively to cut out the coupons each club member wants meets all four of the criteria as well. This is a border case, there were case where golf club membership or timeshare units where found to be securities. But there is also a consumptive utility, the question is do the club member actually read these newspapers, and does the value of coupons is sufficient "expectation of profit"? :) The problem here is the US legal system is principle-based, not rule-based. So there is never a legal clarity. That's the disadvantage. But it also makes it anti-fragile and future-proof.
  - dwohnitmok 5y ago
    > (can't reply directly. thread is too nested?) The deeper a thread is nested, the longer the cool-off period before you can directly respond to a reply. You probably could respond now.