4 ms·

Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.

kingkawn 5y ago
It ain't all men out there
- tartoran 5y ago
  Men also means people, humans
  - kingkawn 5y ago
    To men.
    - tartoran 5y ago
      I see your point and how the language has been masculinized but the meaning still stands as of now.. until the next changes take place. Language is evolving and these will inevitably change as well at some point.
      - kingkawn 5y ago
        You’re talking about it like it’s far away. Yet here I am saying this is an out of date convention and everyone gets their hackles up as if it is such a horrific inconvenience to include others in their ideas. The change has already arrived, only some stragglers angrily clinging to the old way.
- mc32 5y ago
  It’s a quote. One doesn’t typically alter a quote unless it’s unintelligible if not altered in some way.
  - kingkawn 5y ago
    You can quote whatever you like however you like, but it ain't all men out there. Relying on such worldviews to understand the world leaves you with a truncated world.
    - mc32 5y ago
      As the other poster pointed out the word men has multiple meaning which depend on context. The meaning is clear to me and no need to modify it. Next time you quote it you can make your own changes.
      - kingkawn 5y ago
        The idea that ‘men’ is a universal stand-in for people is no different than saying White is the universal stand-in for people.
        mc32 5y ago
        Nope. White has never had that meaning at all. Please look into the etymology of a word before making whimsical arguments. You’ll have an awful time with Chinese where words have many different meanings depending on context.
        kingkawn 5y ago
        I didn’t say it did have that, I said it is the same as doing that. Hilarious to accuse me of whimsical arguments while you morph me into the straw man you need to be right.
Tronno 5y ago
> Strong men create good times. Or sometimes they just kill each other in cycles of violence spanning generations. > Good times create weak men. Or they enable amazing things like the internet, modern medicine, and empires that last 1000 years. Sorry, but I've seen this pithy quote before and I wish it would go away - it's simply not true.
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  I think you’re misunderstanding the quote. You’re right but so is the quote. Strong men fought for our rights, fought for the allies and which led to long lasting peace and security. These are the times that breed weak generations who have no moral compass and have been squandering basic rights and civil liberties.
- throw_nbvc1234 5y ago
  The foundations of the internet and computing were built by people from the cold war when modern civilization was a technical glitch away from ending at any given time. Half the stuff in networking is decades old, written by people who are decades older then that and raised by the generation before them. Implying the internet is a byproduct of the recent "good times" seems a bit disingenuous. The internet (FAANG if you want a concrete definition) and modern medicine are both multi-trillion dollar industries; for very fundamental reasons. I'd argue their relative success would probably occur in both good and bad times.
  - mr_toad 5y ago
    The foundations of the internet were laid during the post war boom era. It was considered by some a golden age. The modern internet is a product of successive booms in the 90’s and 2000’s.
- robbedpeter 5y ago
  The internet came about because of the cold war and the attendant arms race. Empires that last were all born in blood and fire and terror, and universally spend more blood to maintain cohesion against the outside. What type of la la fantasy histories have you been reading? Fat happy people maintain the status quo. Hungry desperate people innovate. Anyway. The world wide web is probably what you meant. And yes, universities and science and medicine makes progress during peaceful times, and ultimately the quote is facile and glib. There is a nugget of truth there, however. Establishing a frontier in human well being has historically required limiting the power of the state in ways that support the relative liberalizing of its culture. States historically require blood sacrifice before any power is ceded. It takes strong people to achieve and hold progress., and the quote encapsulates the notion that there is a place in the natural order of things for strong individuals to shake things up. For principles to be held to at great cost, however inconvenient or even fatal it may be for others who just want to perpetuate "good enough". The fallacy is that good times can't produce good and strong people, which is wrong. It's just a simple matter of conviction being stronger when provoked by trauma than abstract rationalization.

kingkawn 5y ago

It ain't all men out there

tartoran 5y ago
Men also means people, humans
- kingkawn 5y ago
  To men.
  - tartoran 5y ago
    I see your point and how the language has been masculinized but the meaning still stands as of now.. until the next changes take place. Language is evolving and these will inevitably change as well at some point.
    - kingkawn 5y ago
      You’re talking about it like it’s far away. Yet here I am saying this is an out of date convention and everyone gets their hackles up as if it is such a horrific inconvenience to include others in their ideas. The change has already arrived, only some stragglers angrily clinging to the old way.
mc32 5y ago
It’s a quote. One doesn’t typically alter a quote unless it’s unintelligible if not altered in some way.
- kingkawn 5y ago
  You can quote whatever you like however you like, but it ain't all men out there. Relying on such worldviews to understand the world leaves you with a truncated world.
  - mc32 5y ago
    As the other poster pointed out the word men has multiple meaning which depend on context. The meaning is clear to me and no need to modify it. Next time you quote it you can make your own changes.
    - kingkawn 5y ago
      The idea that ‘men’ is a universal stand-in for people is no different than saying White is the universal stand-in for people.
      - mc32 5y ago
        Nope. White has never had that meaning at all. Please look into the etymology of a word before making whimsical arguments. You’ll have an awful time with Chinese where words have many different meanings depending on context.
        kingkawn 5y ago
        I didn’t say it did have that, I said it is the same as doing that. Hilarious to accuse me of whimsical arguments while you morph me into the straw man you need to be right.

Tronno 5y ago

> Strong men create good times. Or sometimes they just kill each other in cycles of violence spanning generations. > Good times create weak men. Or they enable amazing things like the internet, modern medicine, and empires that last 1000 years. Sorry, but I've seen this pithy quote before and I wish it would go away - it's simply not true.

systemvoltage 5y ago
I think you’re misunderstanding the quote. You’re right but so is the quote. Strong men fought for our rights, fought for the allies and which led to long lasting peace and security. These are the times that breed weak generations who have no moral compass and have been squandering basic rights and civil liberties.
throw_nbvc1234 5y ago
The foundations of the internet and computing were built by people from the cold war when modern civilization was a technical glitch away from ending at any given time. Half the stuff in networking is decades old, written by people who are decades older then that and raised by the generation before them. Implying the internet is a byproduct of the recent "good times" seems a bit disingenuous. The internet (FAANG if you want a concrete definition) and modern medicine are both multi-trillion dollar industries; for very fundamental reasons. I'd argue their relative success would probably occur in both good and bad times.
- mr_toad 5y ago
  The foundations of the internet were laid during the post war boom era. It was considered by some a golden age. The modern internet is a product of successive booms in the 90’s and 2000’s.
robbedpeter 5y ago
The internet came about because of the cold war and the attendant arms race. Empires that last were all born in blood and fire and terror, and universally spend more blood to maintain cohesion against the outside. What type of la la fantasy histories have you been reading? Fat happy people maintain the status quo. Hungry desperate people innovate. Anyway. The world wide web is probably what you meant. And yes, universities and science and medicine makes progress during peaceful times, and ultimately the quote is facile and glib. There is a nugget of truth there, however. Establishing a frontier in human well being has historically required limiting the power of the state in ways that support the relative liberalizing of its culture. States historically require blood sacrifice before any power is ceded. It takes strong people to achieve and hold progress., and the quote encapsulates the notion that there is a place in the natural order of things for strong individuals to shake things up. For principles to be held to at great cost, however inconvenient or even fatal it may be for others who just want to perpetuate "good enough". The fallacy is that good times can't produce good and strong people, which is wrong. It's just a simple matter of conviction being stronger when provoked by trauma than abstract rationalization.