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There's nothing wrong to work long hours if it's a choice and not a necessity. I've had colleagues who worked a lot simply because they loved their job. The onl

There's nothing wrong to work long hours if it's a choice and not a necessity. I've had colleagues who worked a lot simply because they loved their job. The only issue I have with them is that they raise the bar in the team and other people may have to keep up.

ilammy 5y ago
> if it's a choice and not a necessity You described the problem yourself: given enough people making a particular choice, it becomes necessity for others. See two-income trap, for example. So basically, it's okay for you as long as you're not a minority. Of course, it's better to be healthy and wealthy than to be sick and poor.
- zsmi 5y ago
  Why is it a trap? If someone wants to work twice as much for twice the pay, more power to them. And I am very sure there are people at my work who make more than me, regardless of how many hours I put in.
  - ipaddr 5y ago
    Not work twice as much put in twice as many hours. No one wastes as much time at work as someone who works 12/14+ hours a day.
    - danielmarkbruce 5y ago
      Some people really are effective 12 hrs a day 7 days a week. I've seen it. It's rare, but not super rare.
      - asdff 5y ago
        Now imagine just how much more effective they would be with sane working hours
        danielmarkbruce 5y ago
        No, I mean there are people who are able to maintain very high output. Ie, each additional hour is a net positive. Some people can run 100m in sub 10 seconds. It's rare. Some people can work very long hours with high productivity. It's annoying for the rest of us, but that doesn't make it false.
        cutemonster 5y ago
        This is true. A short lunch workout and a 1h siesta nap resets the brain. (I definitely wouldn't recommend doing this working for someone else than oneself, or expecting anyone else than oneself to do it. And then not talking about it, so the others in your company don't know, and feel no such pressure)
bobthechef 5y ago
Well, choice doesn't bless the act. Consent doesn't magically make something okay. There's the issue of neglect, both of other duties and your own health. This would be the line between work ethic and workaholism. Work ethic is healthy, motivated by the right desires and motives. Workaholism is excessive, possibly escapist. Leisure, in the original sense (see Josef Pieper), is also necessary and increasing drowned out by work and recreation. All of these are good things, but they have their place.
sriram_malhar 5y ago
But that is the crux of the problem, isn't it? The company loves such people, and it soon becomes the DNA of the place. The finance industry and Silicon Valley are emblematic of this malaise. It leaves no time for reflection, no white space to leave a considered life. People become hesitant to leave work early because of the optics. I once saw an interview of a British trade union leader reply to a BBC journalist about his anger with immigrants. He said unions had battled for decades to work saner hours, to have time for football, to spend time with their friends and families, and for children to not work. They had got all this codified into law and labor practices, and now the immigrants were upending all this work by skirting laws and acceptable work practices
- tylersmith 5y ago
  Trusts and price-fixers usually get upset when competitors undercut them, but that doesn't make it a problem for anyone but them.

ilammy 5y ago

> if it's a choice and not a necessity You described the problem yourself: given enough people making a particular choice, it becomes necessity for others. See two-income trap, for example. So basically, it's okay for you as long as you're not a minority. Of course, it's better to be healthy and wealthy than to be sick and poor.

zsmi 5y ago
Why is it a trap? If someone wants to work twice as much for twice the pay, more power to them. And I am very sure there are people at my work who make more than me, regardless of how many hours I put in.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  Not work twice as much put in twice as many hours. No one wastes as much time at work as someone who works 12/14+ hours a day.
  - danielmarkbruce 5y ago
    Some people really are effective 12 hrs a day 7 days a week. I've seen it. It's rare, but not super rare.
    - asdff 5y ago
      Now imagine just how much more effective they would be with sane working hours
      - danielmarkbruce 5y ago
        No, I mean there are people who are able to maintain very high output. Ie, each additional hour is a net positive. Some people can run 100m in sub 10 seconds. It's rare. Some people can work very long hours with high productivity. It's annoying for the rest of us, but that doesn't make it false.
        cutemonster 5y ago
        This is true. A short lunch workout and a 1h siesta nap resets the brain. (I definitely wouldn't recommend doing this working for someone else than oneself, or expecting anyone else than oneself to do it. And then not talking about it, so the others in your company don't know, and feel no such pressure)

bobthechef 5y ago

Well, choice doesn't bless the act. Consent doesn't magically make something okay. There's the issue of neglect, both of other duties and your own health. This would be the line between work ethic and workaholism. Work ethic is healthy, motivated by the right desires and motives. Workaholism is excessive, possibly escapist. Leisure, in the original sense (see Josef Pieper), is also necessary and increasing drowned out by work and recreation. All of these are good things, but they have their place.

sriram_malhar 5y ago

But that is the crux of the problem, isn't it? The company loves such people, and it soon becomes the DNA of the place. The finance industry and Silicon Valley are emblematic of this malaise. It leaves no time for reflection, no white space to leave a considered life. People become hesitant to leave work early because of the optics. I once saw an interview of a British trade union leader reply to a BBC journalist about his anger with immigrants. He said unions had battled for decades to work saner hours, to have time for football, to spend time with their friends and families, and for children to not work. They had got all this codified into law and labor practices, and now the immigrants were upending all this work by skirting laws and acceptable work practices

tylersmith 5y ago
Trusts and price-fixers usually get upset when competitors undercut them, but that doesn't make it a problem for anyone but them.