11 ms·

Windows is probably the most important piece of software in the entire world, yet Microsoft does not treat it like the most important piece of software in the e

Windows is probably the most important piece of software in the entire world, yet Microsoft does not treat it like the most important piece of software in the entire world. They have no sense of responsibility about foisting this garbage onto billions of users. I've been a lifelong Windows user, but I've come to feel that Windows needs to be completely replaced. We simply cannot trust Microsoft with mission-critical software any longer.

dstaley 5y ago
You do realize this issue was on Windows 11, an unreleased operating system correct? I'm not saying Windows 10 hasn't had its share of critical issues, but I can't remember the last time Microsoft released widely a show-stopping bug to the LTS branch of Windows (that is, the branch you'd be using for "mission-critical" applications).
- XorNot 5y ago
  The existence of ads as a "core" part of the Windows experience speaks otherwise. Why are there ads in paid software? Why is Microsoft content having a separation of "serious" Windows and consumer Windows, delineated by ads and spyware?
- ptero 5y ago
  It is not any unreleased OS though. It is a major release of the most widely used desktop OS in the world, that presumably got through many layers of testing and was released to a small set of outside users before the final rollout less than 1 month away. One would expect a pretty solid state by then.
  - micromacrofoot 5y ago
    so it was caught by an additional layer of testing, a little later down the pipeline than desired, but caught nonetheless
- brian_herman 5y ago
  Yeah, but I'm thinking this is a repeat of Windows Vista and I'll be able to stay on 10 for a while before they create Windows 12 which will be a much better release.
- ComputerGuru 5y ago
  You do realize that this isn’t about this one ad bringing down Windows 11 but rather the very architecture that allowed for an ad to integrate itself into the system to such an extent? That is not something you can fix before RTM release, only patch around.
- exporectomy 5y ago
  It's not just defects, it's ridiculous design choices. Why does almost every single Windows user on the planet have their attention occasionally taken by something utterly pointless to them like "3D Objects" or "Onedrive" when they look for a file, or choosing between "Edit with Photos", "Edit with Paint 3D", and "Edit"? And choose between "Settings" and "Control Panel" which seem like different skins of the same thing, except one has slightly more icons in it than the other, so does that mean it's more functional? Who knows? User has to decide. And why is it that with multiple monitors, if one goes to sleep, the windows all move around, so for anything you keep open, you're regularly manually re-positioning the window every day?
  - marcodiego 5y ago
    Actually the 2 sets of settings is understandable. They probably had to give it the "modern look" but for compatibility and how users were used to the old "control panel" they had to keep it too. And now you have both!
    - recursive 5y ago
      That would be more believable if they let you do the same things. It would probably be more accurate to say they had to keep the old one because the new one is (still!) missing half the settings.
    - danparsonson 5y ago
      The different settings apps that claim to manage the same thing don't cover the same settings. The old apps are not still there to support users who don't like the new look, they're there because the new apps are insufficient and cover an overlapping but different set of configuration. It's thoroughly confusing and frankly a terrible design choice.
      - fomine3 5y ago
        Another reason why old control panes still alive is that new settings app isn't customizable by 3rd parties. Some 3rd party drivers added custom configuration panel on control panel and old drivers remain forever on windows world.
- kroltan 5y ago
  I think it was back in 2018, there was a bugged mandatory Windows Update package that was corrupted for weeks. The system would ask you to reboot the computer, at which point it would try to install the update. That failed with a bluescreen, requiring an automatic restore. This process took around 30 minutes on an SSD. So far seems innocuous, but the thing is, as this was a mandatory update, after one or two days it would display an un-dismissable popup over the entire screen demanding a restart, which would repeat the process above. This caused data loss in applications if the user didn't have the opportunity to save whatever data was in memory. Remember, the popup is undismissable, there were no ahead of time warnings, and the timing varied (so you couldn't even rely on "the computer will fuck up at 16:03" or whatever).
walrus01 5y ago
> Windows is probably the most important piece of software in the entire world It's absolutely not. The amount of things that use the Linux kernel for critical network and infrastructure projects, that are mostly hidden to the public... Or that are built on a foundation of something with a clear Linux heritage. Windows is probably the most visible important piece of software with a GUI.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- mulmen 5y ago
  I don’t see how the GUI makes Windows less important. Windows is everywhere.
  - marcodiego 5y ago
    > Windows is everywhere. Not on the cellphone, smartv, router, supercomputer, webserver or tablet I use. Actually, they all run the same (with some customization) kernel.
    - rovr138 5y ago
      That’s a very small, and biased, sample size.
      - marcodiego 5y ago
        That very same kernel runs on the majority of smartphones, tablets, smart tvs, servers, routers and 100% of the biggest super computers out there. This very same kernel literally flies on Mars. Although my sample size is small it is not biased neither are the referred market segments.
        kroltan 5y ago
        And while Mars and supercomputers are cool and important for society and humanity in general, there is also no denying of the immediate impact that Windows has in most human-interfacing applications. Supermarket checkouts, public services, small-scale logistics, health, just plain old office workers, and so on. An undeniably large slice of companies and public sectors that do not have a dedicated IT staff rely on Windows-based computers to organize and operate their activities. Outages to those probably have more direct impact on actual everyday people going about their lives than an outage in a Mars rover or lack of WiFi access. Just to be clear I'm not playing teams here, *nix-based systems are ridiculously important too, but the open-source base is arguably a more - democratic? healthy? stable? I lack of a better word - development process, and its importance does not lessen the importance of other systems.
marcodiego 5y ago
Microsoft has no threat on the desktop. Apple has a respectable slice but still small compared to Microsoft. With regard to linux... well, if ME, Vista and 8 couldn't bring it into a good position, I don't know what would.
- throwtheacctawy 5y ago
  The Microsoft moat is 3 fold; - Office (Excel and PowerPoint) - Active Directory - legacy Win32 apps It isn’t that Windows has a desktop competitor, it is just that generations of people are being born with the idea that they never need to go to a desktop platform - period - (to get their work done). Use cases of all sorts have migrated from Windows to non-Windows platforms for a variety of reasons. Purpose-built OS, low power consumption, environmental requirements (operate in cold/warm temperatures - with utilitarian / industrial designs), easy to manage - Windows computers are just disappearing from the world. The alternative is cheaper to maintain, replace, manage. On the flip side - people are doing just wild things on mobile - like video, photo editing (basic stuff, but not insignificant tasks compared to just 5 or 10 years ago). Food for thought: 2 years ago; there were over 3 billion android devices in use, and only 900 million Windows devices. Children today don’t grow up with Windows like most of us did. They grow up with Chromebooks. They grow up with Google Apps like Sheets and Docs - which have frictionless, licenseless experiences. Windows has no competition with Windows, but no one wants to compete with Windows, and Microsoft doesn’t even want to compete with Windows. It could sarcastically be said that no one in technology is trying to solve problems for Windows, or on Windows. The joke with that statement is everyone would be on macOS or a Linux Distro - and working on those platforms to deliver platform agnostic solutions - focusing on HTML5 and mobile native. The question often becomes; why Windows? Why not just develop a offering that is platform agnostic? Long-term, this erodes the value of Windows. Certain jobs will have Windows for the foreseeable future, with no alternative. But the use of Windows will still diminish long term. There are websites that track (by browser user agent) the OS in use across different cities, states and countries. This data is quite fascinating and amusing. You can see trends very easily. Developed countries generally have higher macOS and iOS market share - with a few countries having 40% of desktop users on macOS (when blended with mobile, macOS market share decreases significantly). Frontier economies have massive Android market share, and overwhelming amount of desktop market share to Windows. These are wild times. Windows is going nowhere, and when people say that; they mean literally. When one of the latest enhancements to the Windows OS is including support to run Android apps; which to me looks like the white flag being waved. In my lifetime, I would have never thought it was possible for Windows to have a native OS clunky emulator for Android apps.
fabianhjr 5y ago
> We simply cannot trust Microsoft with mission-critical software any longer. We generally don't, most servers and mission critical infrastructure runs Linux or a BSD. What scares me is that many medical devices do run on Windows and that is a future Therac-25 like incident waiting to happen ( https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Therac-25 https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Therac-25 )
- ajdude 5y ago
  Some years ago I went to the dentist and had to get x-rays done on my teeth. After a fair bit of time going through all of the different angles, the technician apologized to me and said that we have to do it all again. The computer tied to the x-ray machine did a forced restart for Windows update, this is back in the days of Windows 7, and I had to get my teeth x-rayed all over again after we sat and waited for 20 minutes.
  - liketochill 5y ago
    This is why yeah computers for controlling machines should not be allowed to indiscriminately access the internet.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

dstaley 5y ago

You do realize this issue was on Windows 11, an unreleased operating system correct? I'm not saying Windows 10 hasn't had its share of critical issues, but I can't remember the last time Microsoft released widely a show-stopping bug to the LTS branch of Windows (that is, the branch you'd be using for "mission-critical" applications).

XorNot 5y ago
The existence of ads as a "core" part of the Windows experience speaks otherwise. Why are there ads in paid software? Why is Microsoft content having a separation of "serious" Windows and consumer Windows, delineated by ads and spyware?
ptero 5y ago
It is not any unreleased OS though. It is a major release of the most widely used desktop OS in the world, that presumably got through many layers of testing and was released to a small set of outside users before the final rollout less than 1 month away. One would expect a pretty solid state by then.
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  so it was caught by an additional layer of testing, a little later down the pipeline than desired, but caught nonetheless
brian_herman 5y ago
Yeah, but I'm thinking this is a repeat of Windows Vista and I'll be able to stay on 10 for a while before they create Windows 12 which will be a much better release.
ComputerGuru 5y ago
You do realize that this isn’t about this one ad bringing down Windows 11 but rather the very architecture that allowed for an ad to integrate itself into the system to such an extent? That is not something you can fix before RTM release, only patch around.
exporectomy 5y ago
It's not just defects, it's ridiculous design choices. Why does almost every single Windows user on the planet have their attention occasionally taken by something utterly pointless to them like "3D Objects" or "Onedrive" when they look for a file, or choosing between "Edit with Photos", "Edit with Paint 3D", and "Edit"? And choose between "Settings" and "Control Panel" which seem like different skins of the same thing, except one has slightly more icons in it than the other, so does that mean it's more functional? Who knows? User has to decide. And why is it that with multiple monitors, if one goes to sleep, the windows all move around, so for anything you keep open, you're regularly manually re-positioning the window every day?
- marcodiego 5y ago
  Actually the 2 sets of settings is understandable. They probably had to give it the "modern look" but for compatibility and how users were used to the old "control panel" they had to keep it too. And now you have both!
  - recursive 5y ago
    That would be more believable if they let you do the same things. It would probably be more accurate to say they had to keep the old one because the new one is (still!) missing half the settings.
  - danparsonson 5y ago
    The different settings apps that claim to manage the same thing don't cover the same settings. The old apps are not still there to support users who don't like the new look, they're there because the new apps are insufficient and cover an overlapping but different set of configuration. It's thoroughly confusing and frankly a terrible design choice.
    - fomine3 5y ago
      Another reason why old control panes still alive is that new settings app isn't customizable by 3rd parties. Some 3rd party drivers added custom configuration panel on control panel and old drivers remain forever on windows world.
kroltan 5y ago
I think it was back in 2018, there was a bugged mandatory Windows Update package that was corrupted for weeks. The system would ask you to reboot the computer, at which point it would try to install the update. That failed with a bluescreen, requiring an automatic restore. This process took around 30 minutes on an SSD. So far seems innocuous, but the thing is, as this was a mandatory update, after one or two days it would display an un-dismissable popup over the entire screen demanding a restart, which would repeat the process above. This caused data loss in applications if the user didn't have the opportunity to save whatever data was in memory. Remember, the popup is undismissable, there were no ahead of time warnings, and the timing varied (so you couldn't even rely on "the computer will fuck up at 16:03" or whatever).

walrus01 5y ago

> Windows is probably the most important piece of software in the entire world It's absolutely not. The amount of things that use the Linux kernel for critical network and infrastructure projects, that are mostly hidden to the public... Or that are built on a foundation of something with a clear Linux heritage. Windows is probably the most visible important piece of software with a GUI.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
mulmen 5y ago
I don’t see how the GUI makes Windows less important. Windows is everywhere.
- marcodiego 5y ago
  > Windows is everywhere. Not on the cellphone, smartv, router, supercomputer, webserver or tablet I use. Actually, they all run the same (with some customization) kernel.
  - rovr138 5y ago
    That’s a very small, and biased, sample size.
    - marcodiego 5y ago
      That very same kernel runs on the majority of smartphones, tablets, smart tvs, servers, routers and 100% of the biggest super computers out there. This very same kernel literally flies on Mars. Although my sample size is small it is not biased neither are the referred market segments.
      - kroltan 5y ago
        And while Mars and supercomputers are cool and important for society and humanity in general, there is also no denying of the immediate impact that Windows has in most human-interfacing applications. Supermarket checkouts, public services, small-scale logistics, health, just plain old office workers, and so on. An undeniably large slice of companies and public sectors that do not have a dedicated IT staff rely on Windows-based computers to organize and operate their activities. Outages to those probably have more direct impact on actual everyday people going about their lives than an outage in a Mars rover or lack of WiFi access. Just to be clear I'm not playing teams here, *nix-based systems are ridiculously important too, but the open-source base is arguably a more - democratic? healthy? stable? I lack of a better word - development process, and its importance does not lessen the importance of other systems.

marcodiego 5y ago

Microsoft has no threat on the desktop. Apple has a respectable slice but still small compared to Microsoft. With regard to linux... well, if ME, Vista and 8 couldn't bring it into a good position, I don't know what would.

throwtheacctawy 5y ago
The Microsoft moat is 3 fold; - Office (Excel and PowerPoint) - Active Directory - legacy Win32 apps It isn’t that Windows has a desktop competitor, it is just that generations of people are being born with the idea that they never need to go to a desktop platform - period - (to get their work done). Use cases of all sorts have migrated from Windows to non-Windows platforms for a variety of reasons. Purpose-built OS, low power consumption, environmental requirements (operate in cold/warm temperatures - with utilitarian / industrial designs), easy to manage - Windows computers are just disappearing from the world. The alternative is cheaper to maintain, replace, manage. On the flip side - people are doing just wild things on mobile - like video, photo editing (basic stuff, but not insignificant tasks compared to just 5 or 10 years ago). Food for thought: 2 years ago; there were over 3 billion android devices in use, and only 900 million Windows devices. Children today don’t grow up with Windows like most of us did. They grow up with Chromebooks. They grow up with Google Apps like Sheets and Docs - which have frictionless, licenseless experiences. Windows has no competition with Windows, but no one wants to compete with Windows, and Microsoft doesn’t even want to compete with Windows. It could sarcastically be said that no one in technology is trying to solve problems for Windows, or on Windows. The joke with that statement is everyone would be on macOS or a Linux Distro - and working on those platforms to deliver platform agnostic solutions - focusing on HTML5 and mobile native. The question often becomes; why Windows? Why not just develop a offering that is platform agnostic? Long-term, this erodes the value of Windows. Certain jobs will have Windows for the foreseeable future, with no alternative. But the use of Windows will still diminish long term. There are websites that track (by browser user agent) the OS in use across different cities, states and countries. This data is quite fascinating and amusing. You can see trends very easily. Developed countries generally have higher macOS and iOS market share - with a few countries having 40% of desktop users on macOS (when blended with mobile, macOS market share decreases significantly). Frontier economies have massive Android market share, and overwhelming amount of desktop market share to Windows. These are wild times. Windows is going nowhere, and when people say that; they mean literally. When one of the latest enhancements to the Windows OS is including support to run Android apps; which to me looks like the white flag being waved. In my lifetime, I would have never thought it was possible for Windows to have a native OS clunky emulator for Android apps.

fabianhjr 5y ago

> We simply cannot trust Microsoft with mission-critical software any longer. We generally don't, most servers and mission critical infrastructure runs Linux or a BSD. What scares me is that many medical devices do run on Windows and that is a future Therac-25 like incident waiting to happen ( https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Therac-25 https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Therac-25 )

ajdude 5y ago
Some years ago I went to the dentist and had to get x-rays done on my teeth. After a fair bit of time going through all of the different angles, the technician apologized to me and said that we have to do it all again. The computer tied to the x-ray machine did a forced restart for Windows update, this is back in the days of Windows 7, and I had to get my teeth x-rayed all over again after we sat and waited for 20 minutes.
- liketochill 5y ago
  This is why yeah computers for controlling machines should not be allowed to indiscriminately access the internet.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]