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It's so mind boggling to me that we're okay with this level of uncertainty about the systems we rely on every day. I run LTSC with updates disabled because the

It's so mind boggling to me that we're okay with this level of uncertainty about the systems we rely on every day. I run LTSC with updates disabled because the idea that something that's working one day would stop working the next drives me up the wall. I have a linux phone (which is awful) because at least when that breaks it's my fault and I can always just put it back into a known working state. I hate how my relationship with Microsoft/Google etc is essentially one where they're constantly pushing the boundaries of what I'm willing to put up with. It's fucking abusive.

mistrial9 5y ago
> we're okay with this level of uncertainty no, you are not the customer.. executive management, legal and finance are the target customer
- vladvasiliu 5y ago
  I sometimes like to joke that seeing a company push for Windows / Teams, and, more generally, software that fights against you instead of helping you do your job must be some kind of signaling. "Look how well-off we are, we can afford to pay our employees full-time while they only work half the time".
marcodiego 5y ago
> ... we're okay with this level of uncertainty about the systems we rely on every day. I'm not included in this "we". And I definitely pay a price for that by sacrificing some convenience. I'm sure the price would be lower if more people were willing to make the same sacrifices. I can understand most end users being okay with that. Most are not educated to know the problems or alternatives. But developers should consider how contributions in code or money could improve competition and encourage development of better software for everyone.
- Jorengarenar 5y ago
  I, on the other hand, would need to sacrifice a lot of convenience to be included in this "we"
washadjeffmad 5y ago
Not being glib, but have you ever tried just getting rid of your laptop, smartphone, internet, TV, etc? They certainly add the occasional convenience, but it's actually really easy to go a week or three at a time without any of it. That's always an option, and it's a fairly good one if it's making you feel how you describe.
- pixl97 5y ago
  Getting rid of my laptop and internet for a few weeks and I expect to make a living how?
  - nixpulvis 5y ago
    This is part of the problem. People feel trapped in their ecosystems. Despite the value added, the technology is suffocating a lot of people (think broader than just "Tech Workers" too).
    - 0235005 5y ago
      I think that this is for certain true but the solution of the problem is where the onteresting part is because most people do not want to go and live im a cabin
      - asdff 5y ago
        Taking a break from your laptop doesn't mean you become a hermit in the woods.
  - notatoad 5y ago
    i've got a desktop computer at my office. it's still "having a computer", but i find there's a good difference between having a computer that you think of as "yours" versus a computer that's just a work tool. i've also got a laptop right now, but i've gone years at a time without having a personal computer at home. it's perfectly doable.
- nixpulvis 5y ago
branon 5y ago
Which linux phone?
makeitdouble 5y ago
Isn't it true for a lot of things we rely on every day ? Remembering the days of commuting by train, wether the train will come on time or not was a lottery. Traveling by car, accidents, jams, not being able to park etc. are mundane. Elevator/escalators being in maintenance was also a common sight. Things being broken feels part of life, and we learn to plan ahead, have alternatives or deal with it when there is nothing to help. I think computers and remote services entering our everyday lives is part of that.
- asdff 5y ago
  A computer is a tool. You buy it to perform what it is advertised to do, just like a socket wrench set. But unlike a socket wrench set, the manufacturer could break into your home in the night and replace your rachet and make it incompatible with your old sockets that still work.
  - makeitdouble 5y ago
    Microsoft Teams is a service, so more like trains or taxis in the physical world. Tomorrow train operators could all be on strike and we'd just be SOL. I think the change that people haven't completely caught on with is a lot of digital tools becoming services. A bit like how enterprises used to own printers, and those are now rented appliances paid by month or by printed page.
    - hulitu 5y ago
      Teams is not a service. Is a program used to talk to other people, like buying tickets for the train or talking with the passengers. Teams has to run in an environment when it is not alone. You need to get on the train, search for a place etc. TBH teams behaves more like a service than like a program. Using teams is like talking to somebody at the other end of the train.
    - thomastjeffery 5y ago
      Microsoft teams is two things: 1. An online service with a private API endpoint. 2. A client program that communicates over that API endpoint. So this is more like having a car (client program) that the company owns parked in your driveway (your OS), and you can't drive on the company's private roads (the service API) without using that specific car, oh and the company is allowed to repave your driveway whenever they like. I would much rather have my own car and my own driveway, thank-you-very-much.
nightski 5y ago
This is in a pre-release build. I'm not happy to hear about it, but in reality Windows 10 has been incredibly reliable. Can't remember the last time I saw a crash to be honest, and I use it for 8-10 hours a day most of the time.
- shkkmo 5y ago
  You mean the same windows 10 that I never bother to boot into because every time I do various services decide to do so many indexing and updating tasks that it pegs the hard drive at 100% for hours? I should be able to launch windows every couple of months without having to wait so long to do anything that I forget why I even booted into windows in the first place.
  - dexwiz 5y ago
    This drives me insane. I try to boot up and play a game, only to find my FPS cut in half due to some background d operation that Windows has determined critical. But not critical enough to tell me beforehand.
    - nicbou 5y ago
      Same. Windows is literally just a Fortnite OS, and it manages to mess up often enough to be a problem.
    - Hithredin 5y ago
      All mainstream games targetting a reliable OS (Linux?) will be coming soon if they continue this way.
    - thomastjeffery 5y ago
      Not to mention the fake fullscreen mode that is actually windowed borderless with the compositor disabled. You used to be able to "disable fullscreen optimizations" in properties to get real exclusive fullscreen mode, but now you have to edit a registry entry for that binary, and even that doesn't work most of the time. I have this beautiful 144hz monitor for a reason: latency sucks.
swiley 5y ago
I’m not ok with it. Nothing in my house runs Windows and even my phone runs Linux with a fairly normal X11 DE at this point. At work all the coorperate crapware makes the machine so unstable anyway Microsoft’s malware would just be one more thing. It’s a broken window (heh) situation.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  I installed OpenBSD about 10 years ago and have used nothing else on my personal computers since then. It does occasionally have breaking changes in its updates, but they never happen without you taking action to initiate them. The idea that we're OK with random popups, feature promotions, nags to use this or that or enable some setting, and outright advertising on our computers is just mind-boggling.
  - walteweiss 5y ago
    Why did you choose this very OS? Considering there are many of BSDs and Linux as well.
    - swiley 5y ago
      OpenBSD tends to be minimalist and pragmatic. I’ve used it before, it’s a good no-nonsense OS.
      - JohnFen 5y ago
        Yes. I've decided to switch from Linux to BSD for various reasons. That's going to be a slow switch, though -- I have a lot of machines that need to addressed.
Haga 5y ago
How about we call them attackers like the maleware providers they are?
JohnFen 5y ago
> It's so mind boggling to me that we're okay with this level of uncertainty about the systems we rely on every day. I'm not OK with it. It's one of the many reasons why I stopped using Windows on my own machines a decade or so ago. Sadly, though, I still have to use it at work, and every workday, I'm reminded why I stopped using Windows.

mistrial9 5y ago

> we're okay with this level of uncertainty no, you are not the customer.. executive management, legal and finance are the target customer

vladvasiliu 5y ago
I sometimes like to joke that seeing a company push for Windows / Teams, and, more generally, software that fights against you instead of helping you do your job must be some kind of signaling. "Look how well-off we are, we can afford to pay our employees full-time while they only work half the time".

marcodiego 5y ago

> ... we're okay with this level of uncertainty about the systems we rely on every day. I'm not included in this "we". And I definitely pay a price for that by sacrificing some convenience. I'm sure the price would be lower if more people were willing to make the same sacrifices. I can understand most end users being okay with that. Most are not educated to know the problems or alternatives. But developers should consider how contributions in code or money could improve competition and encourage development of better software for everyone.

Jorengarenar 5y ago
I, on the other hand, would need to sacrifice a lot of convenience to be included in this "we"

washadjeffmad 5y ago

Not being glib, but have you ever tried just getting rid of your laptop, smartphone, internet, TV, etc? They certainly add the occasional convenience, but it's actually really easy to go a week or three at a time without any of it. That's always an option, and it's a fairly good one if it's making you feel how you describe.

pixl97 5y ago
Getting rid of my laptop and internet for a few weeks and I expect to make a living how?
- nixpulvis 5y ago
  This is part of the problem. People feel trapped in their ecosystems. Despite the value added, the technology is suffocating a lot of people (think broader than just "Tech Workers" too).
  - 0235005 5y ago
    I think that this is for certain true but the solution of the problem is where the onteresting part is because most people do not want to go and live im a cabin
    - asdff 5y ago
      Taking a break from your laptop doesn't mean you become a hermit in the woods.
- notatoad 5y ago
  i've got a desktop computer at my office. it's still "having a computer", but i find there's a good difference between having a computer that you think of as "yours" versus a computer that's just a work tool. i've also got a laptop right now, but i've gone years at a time without having a personal computer at home. it's perfectly doable.
nixpulvis 5y ago

branon 5y ago

Which linux phone?

makeitdouble 5y ago

Isn't it true for a lot of things we rely on every day ? Remembering the days of commuting by train, wether the train will come on time or not was a lottery. Traveling by car, accidents, jams, not being able to park etc. are mundane. Elevator/escalators being in maintenance was also a common sight. Things being broken feels part of life, and we learn to plan ahead, have alternatives or deal with it when there is nothing to help. I think computers and remote services entering our everyday lives is part of that.

asdff 5y ago
A computer is a tool. You buy it to perform what it is advertised to do, just like a socket wrench set. But unlike a socket wrench set, the manufacturer could break into your home in the night and replace your rachet and make it incompatible with your old sockets that still work.
- makeitdouble 5y ago
  Microsoft Teams is a service, so more like trains or taxis in the physical world. Tomorrow train operators could all be on strike and we'd just be SOL. I think the change that people haven't completely caught on with is a lot of digital tools becoming services. A bit like how enterprises used to own printers, and those are now rented appliances paid by month or by printed page.
  - hulitu 5y ago
    Teams is not a service. Is a program used to talk to other people, like buying tickets for the train or talking with the passengers. Teams has to run in an environment when it is not alone. You need to get on the train, search for a place etc. TBH teams behaves more like a service than like a program. Using teams is like talking to somebody at the other end of the train.
  - thomastjeffery 5y ago
    Microsoft teams is two things: 1. An online service with a private API endpoint. 2. A client program that communicates over that API endpoint. So this is more like having a car (client program) that the company owns parked in your driveway (your OS), and you can't drive on the company's private roads (the service API) without using that specific car, oh and the company is allowed to repave your driveway whenever they like. I would much rather have my own car and my own driveway, thank-you-very-much.

nightski 5y ago

This is in a pre-release build. I'm not happy to hear about it, but in reality Windows 10 has been incredibly reliable. Can't remember the last time I saw a crash to be honest, and I use it for 8-10 hours a day most of the time.

shkkmo 5y ago
You mean the same windows 10 that I never bother to boot into because every time I do various services decide to do so many indexing and updating tasks that it pegs the hard drive at 100% for hours? I should be able to launch windows every couple of months without having to wait so long to do anything that I forget why I even booted into windows in the first place.
- dexwiz 5y ago
  This drives me insane. I try to boot up and play a game, only to find my FPS cut in half due to some background d operation that Windows has determined critical. But not critical enough to tell me beforehand.
  - nicbou 5y ago
    Same. Windows is literally just a Fortnite OS, and it manages to mess up often enough to be a problem.
  - Hithredin 5y ago
    All mainstream games targetting a reliable OS (Linux?) will be coming soon if they continue this way.
  - thomastjeffery 5y ago
    Not to mention the fake fullscreen mode that is actually windowed borderless with the compositor disabled. You used to be able to "disable fullscreen optimizations" in properties to get real exclusive fullscreen mode, but now you have to edit a registry entry for that binary, and even that doesn't work most of the time. I have this beautiful 144hz monitor for a reason: latency sucks.

swiley 5y ago

I’m not ok with it. Nothing in my house runs Windows and even my phone runs Linux with a fairly normal X11 DE at this point. At work all the coorperate crapware makes the machine so unstable anyway Microsoft’s malware would just be one more thing. It’s a broken window (heh) situation.

throwawayboise 5y ago
I installed OpenBSD about 10 years ago and have used nothing else on my personal computers since then. It does occasionally have breaking changes in its updates, but they never happen without you taking action to initiate them. The idea that we're OK with random popups, feature promotions, nags to use this or that or enable some setting, and outright advertising on our computers is just mind-boggling.
- walteweiss 5y ago
  Why did you choose this very OS? Considering there are many of BSDs and Linux as well.
  - swiley 5y ago
    OpenBSD tends to be minimalist and pragmatic. I’ve used it before, it’s a good no-nonsense OS.
    - JohnFen 5y ago
      Yes. I've decided to switch from Linux to BSD for various reasons. That's going to be a slow switch, though -- I have a lot of machines that need to addressed.

Haga 5y ago

How about we call them attackers like the maleware providers they are?

JohnFen 5y ago

> It's so mind boggling to me that we're okay with this level of uncertainty about the systems we rely on every day. I'm not OK with it. It's one of the many reasons why I stopped using Windows on my own machines a decade or so ago. Sadly, though, I still have to use it at work, and every workday, I'm reminded why I stopped using Windows.