5 ms·

Maybe, but I think it conflates two things: i) getting a college education and ii) the price of it. Maybe the price in the US just isn't right anymore. At the

Maybe, but I think it conflates two things: i) getting a college education and ii) the price of it. Maybe the price in the US just isn't right anymore. At the same time, the "elites" do make sure their offspring does get a prestigious (signaling) college/university education. So baring big changes to how society is run, some things will be difficult to get to without a college education.

thatfrenchguy 5y ago
> Maybe the price in the US just isn't right anymore. Has it be right since at least the 1990s though? There’s clear divergence between income and college costs in the USA, and it’s hard to see why, given everyone in the industry seems to be taking a part of the honey pot. Seriously, how did we arrive to “textbook for a semester are more expensive than tuition is in other counties”?
- alisonkisk 5y ago
  Not all college is not expensive. Diploma mills and elite colleges and pseudo-elite private colleges are expensive. Liberal arts degrees are expensive. Your local public community/technical college has great ROI for a career-related field. In most states, your public university has a great ROI as well. (If you are paying full price, it may be because you are on the "diploma mills" track within a multi-track school)
- zabzonk 5y ago
  > Seriously, how did we arrive to “textbook for a semester are more expensive than tuition is in other counties”? Academic corruption. They get kickbacks from the publishers for forcing these (always crap) textbooks on their students.
  - bernulli 5y ago
    That's not really a thing. Also, wait till you hear how much an academic makes from the articles they publish, and from those lucrative research grants from big-[oil,pharma,etc].
    - zabzonk 5y ago
      > That's not really a thing. Sorry, it is. I've worked in higher education and I've seen it happen. What other explanation do you have for the sales of these ludicrous "textbooks"?
      - jjk166 5y ago
        It's not like there is a cheap alternative that the professors can switch to. All new edition textbooks are expensive. They can't specify out of print editions because then you can't guarantee that your students can get access to them, and the textbook companies update the problems in the books just enough to make using a different edition from the one specified impractical. Some publishers may incentivize using their particular textbook, but there isn't some vast conspiracy to jack up prices. The fact is textbooks are a niche product with a steep demand curve that can be paid for with subsidized loans, of course they're going to be ridiculously overpriced.
        zabzonk 5y ago
        Then don't require (note, require) students to buy textbooks at all - what are these lecturers supposed to be doing? Are there no libraries. Don't outdate them every year to make second hand ones useless. > ridiculously overpriced Well, you admit it yourself. And the books aren't even any good!
        jjk166 5y ago
        The lecturers are supposed to be lecturing. 300 kids taking a course in a 90 day semester, 10 copies in a library, each kid gets 3 days per semester with the class textbook. Would you pay 25000 for that semester of education? Maybe some students can go halvsies on a copy but the number of copies of the book that you need is roughly equivalent to the number of students. And before you say "well why doesn't the library just buy more copies" remember who pays for the library to buy those copies. The professors don't make the changes to the textbooks, the publishers do. Professors don't like it either, they have to update all of their materials every year to keep up with the changes too. No one is denying textbooks are expensive, I'm denying the conspiracy theory that professors and publishers are all colluding to manipulate the market.
unpolloloco 5y ago
The other problem is that prices have no relation to quality. The random private university that will saddle you with $250k in debt and no job prospects costs the same as Harvard, which will both give you more aid and give you a foot in the door pretty much anywhere. But the marketing to kids has been all about finding the right "fit" - not finding the school that will actually land them a job for a reasonable value. And to top that off, career "fit" has been marketed so hard to kids that no one wants to go into specialized trades, which will both almost definitely pay way better and be way more fulfilling than the random inside sales job that they land right out of school

thatfrenchguy 5y ago

> Maybe the price in the US just isn't right anymore. Has it be right since at least the 1990s though? There’s clear divergence between income and college costs in the USA, and it’s hard to see why, given everyone in the industry seems to be taking a part of the honey pot. Seriously, how did we arrive to “textbook for a semester are more expensive than tuition is in other counties”?

alisonkisk 5y ago
Not all college is not expensive. Diploma mills and elite colleges and pseudo-elite private colleges are expensive. Liberal arts degrees are expensive. Your local public community/technical college has great ROI for a career-related field. In most states, your public university has a great ROI as well. (If you are paying full price, it may be because you are on the "diploma mills" track within a multi-track school)
zabzonk 5y ago
> Seriously, how did we arrive to “textbook for a semester are more expensive than tuition is in other counties”? Academic corruption. They get kickbacks from the publishers for forcing these (always crap) textbooks on their students.
- bernulli 5y ago
  That's not really a thing. Also, wait till you hear how much an academic makes from the articles they publish, and from those lucrative research grants from big-[oil,pharma,etc].
  - zabzonk 5y ago
    > That's not really a thing. Sorry, it is. I've worked in higher education and I've seen it happen. What other explanation do you have for the sales of these ludicrous "textbooks"?
    - jjk166 5y ago
      It's not like there is a cheap alternative that the professors can switch to. All new edition textbooks are expensive. They can't specify out of print editions because then you can't guarantee that your students can get access to them, and the textbook companies update the problems in the books just enough to make using a different edition from the one specified impractical. Some publishers may incentivize using their particular textbook, but there isn't some vast conspiracy to jack up prices. The fact is textbooks are a niche product with a steep demand curve that can be paid for with subsidized loans, of course they're going to be ridiculously overpriced.
      - zabzonk 5y ago
        Then don't require (note, require) students to buy textbooks at all - what are these lecturers supposed to be doing? Are there no libraries. Don't outdate them every year to make second hand ones useless. > ridiculously overpriced Well, you admit it yourself. And the books aren't even any good!
        jjk166 5y ago
        The lecturers are supposed to be lecturing. 300 kids taking a course in a 90 day semester, 10 copies in a library, each kid gets 3 days per semester with the class textbook. Would you pay 25000 for that semester of education? Maybe some students can go halvsies on a copy but the number of copies of the book that you need is roughly equivalent to the number of students. And before you say "well why doesn't the library just buy more copies" remember who pays for the library to buy those copies. The professors don't make the changes to the textbooks, the publishers do. Professors don't like it either, they have to update all of their materials every year to keep up with the changes too. No one is denying textbooks are expensive, I'm denying the conspiracy theory that professors and publishers are all colluding to manipulate the market.

unpolloloco 5y ago

The other problem is that prices have no relation to quality. The random private university that will saddle you with $250k in debt and no job prospects costs the same as Harvard, which will both give you more aid and give you a foot in the door pretty much anywhere. But the marketing to kids has been all about finding the right "fit" - not finding the school that will actually land them a job for a reasonable value. And to top that off, career "fit" has been marketed so hard to kids that no one wants to go into specialized trades, which will both almost definitely pay way better and be way more fulfilling than the random inside sales job that they land right out of school