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My biggest problem with Gnome 3 (and the number one reason I abandoned it in favor of Xmonad, which I've come to like quite a lot), was that it breaks the UI co

by 1amzave 15y ago

My biggest problem with Gnome 3 (and the number one reason I abandoned it in favor of Xmonad, which I've come to like quite a lot), was that it breaks the UI concept of the modifier key. Simply pressing and releasing the super key (with no other keypress in between) triggers a change of state (bringing up the "overview" or whatever it's called). The modifier key is such a basic interface concept that I struggle to imagine why they would go out of their way to break it -- any way I look at it, it's just monumentally idiotic. And best of all, I could find no way of disabling it. Admittedly, they're not the first to do this. OpenOffice has done something similar for quite a while (pressing and releasing a modifier key brings up a menu); that was one of the many things about OO that pissed me off. Nevertheless, precedent is insufficient justification for such a thoroughly moronic change. I've been wanting to rant about that for a while now, glad to get it off my chest. Thankfully, Xmonad is fantastic, so in a way I'm grateful to Gnome 3 for leading me to switch to it.

thristian 15y ago
It's not without precedent; In Windows, tapping the Alt key moves keyboard focus to the menu-bar (at least, it did in older version of Windows that had standard menu bars). To be fair, I've nobbled that particular behaviour of GNOME 3.0 because it prevents using the Super key for any other keyboard shortcuts. If I read bugzilla rightly, that should be fixed in 3.2, though.
- andregawron 15y ago
  You can actually make the Super-Key usable again. Goto Region and Language -> Keyboard Layout Options and tick "Hyper is mapped to Win-keys" [1]. After that, you can use the super key again for shortcuts. I moved the activity window to Super-A but actually never use it. [1] Image: http://www.andre-gawron.de/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/key.png http://www.andre-gawron.de/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/key.pn... [2] Full blog entry: http://www.andre-gawron.de/383/amsterdam-peek-gnome-3-a-new-hobby http://www.andre-gawron.de/383/amsterdam-peek-gnome-3-a-new-...
  - thristian 15y ago
    Just checking that I've got this correct: you set the 'Hyper is mapped to Win keys' option in the keyboard config, you set GNOME 3 to use 'Super' to activate the overlay, then re-configure your other shortcuts to use 'Hyper' instead of 'Super' (or 'Mod4')?
    - andregawron 15y ago
      Hyper, Super ... I'm talking about mod4 (on most keyboards the win-key right to L-CTRL). The overlay is normally activated by pressing mod4. With the stated option ticked, triggering the overlay with mod4 doesn't work anymore (when I remember correctly) - but every other shortcut using mod4 + anykey works again. To get to the overlay using a shortcut, I set it to mod4 + a.
      - thristian 15y ago
        Ah, right. That's probably a nicer way of doing it since you don't have to mess with gconf-editor. Personally, I cleared /apps/mutter/general/overlay_key (which prevents the overlay from being triggered by any modifier, which got my mod4 bindings working again. I set /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/panel_main_menu to "<Mod4>Escape", which on GNOME 2.x activates the Applications menu, but on GNOME 3.x activates the overlay.
- Kwpolska 15y ago
  If an application has a hidden menu in the newer Windowses, Alt shows it.
- andor 15y ago
  To be fair, I've nobbled that particular behaviour of GNOME 3.0 because it prevents using the Super key for any other keyboard shortcuts. Is this really the case on your system? I've always had a shortcut to gnome-terminal on Mod4+T and I can't remember having any problems since I upgraded to Fedora 15.
  - thristian 15y ago
    "any" is a generalisation; more specifically, gnome-shell breaks per-window keyboard shortcuts. My Mod4+N for 'new terminal' and Mod4+R for 'run command' shortcuts worked fine, but Mod4+W for 'close window' and Mod4+X for 'toggle maximize' were broken.
heelhook 15y ago
Well. You could argue the Super key is not a Modifier key, afaik it was popularized as they "Windows" key, which when it became popular pressing it by itself caused the start menu to open, doing something similar to what one of the most popular operating systems (XP) gas done is at least not something unexpected to normal users. That said, I switched back to Gnome 2 because I find Gnome 3 basically unusable for anything other than browsing the web in a single window. Also, in case someone mistakes my point of view I should say I don't use windows nor like it at all.
walrus 15y ago
You can change the activities/overview screen shortcut in the 'Shortcuts' tab of the keyboard settings panel. It's located under the 'System' category. I personally chose win-space instead of just win.
ootachi 15y ago
The primary function of the Windows key has been to open the Start menu since the day it was introduced. The modifier key aspect of it was always secondary.
- 1amzave 15y ago
  ...but that's Windows, this is not. I don't see why Microsoft's mistakes should carry over. On my keyboard, it's not even physically labeled as the "windows" key anway, it says "option" (or, if I didn't have things re-mapped, "command").
- joe_the_user 15y ago
  So has Microsoft broken the modifier function too? My memory of Windows was that the Win key worked as global system modifier key. But it's been a while now...
  - zokier 15y ago
    In Windows tapping Win key opens Start menu, but holding it down allows it to be used as modifier. So opening Start menu is triggered by falling edge, if no other key was pressed in combination.
  - zootm 15y ago
    It works as a modifier if you press another key with it, else it focuses the Start Menu.
  - pak 15y ago
    It was broken from the start, since it was introduced in conjunction with Win95 and at that point it was designed to trigger the Start menu with a single press.
- ConstantineXVI 15y ago
  AFAIK (and this[1] seems to back it up), the Windows key has always been used for system-wide shortcuts since it's introduction in Win95. (I apologize for the historical artifact of a webpage linked below) [1]http://members.fortunecity.com/buchta/PCTourCD/files/win/Overview/ShortcutsWindows.htm#winkey http://members.fortunecity.com/buchta/PCTourCD/files/win/Ove...
bokchoi 15y ago
I agree. I think a double-super (that's two super presses in a row) would have been much better, but would be less discoverable.
Tichy 15y ago
Never heard of the modifier key, but it sounds like a stupid idea. How are you supposed to discover that magic key? I think the point of UIs is to make documentation superfluous. If I have to read about that key in the docs, the UI has failed.
- lloeki 15y ago
  The UI should tell it. For example the right-click menu, which shows possible actions, could tell you which one is called when modifier+clicking. Or maybe under the popover of the name of the app it oculd say "ctrl+click to open a new window".
- lubutu 15y ago
  Ctrl is a modifier key. You'd really prefer not to have Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V, etc? Each to their own, I suppose.
  - Tichy 15y ago
    Does Ctrl-C and so on not work in Gnome 3 anymore? Maybe I misunderstood what the OP was trying to say. I thought he meant a key that changes the menus. Also Ctrl-C and so on are only keyboard shortcuts. Most "normal" people probably don't know about them.
roel_v 15y ago
I guess you're just misunderstanding the concept of the key. A modifier key is only modifying when you press something at the same time. So when you do alt-a, that's a modifier; when you just press and release, it does something else. Quite simple, I never had a problem with it.

by 1amzave 15y ago

thristian 15y ago

It's not without precedent; In Windows, tapping the Alt key moves keyboard focus to the menu-bar (at least, it did in older version of Windows that had standard menu bars). To be fair, I've nobbled that particular behaviour of GNOME 3.0 because it prevents using the Super key for any other keyboard shortcuts. If I read bugzilla rightly, that should be fixed in 3.2, though.

andregawron 15y ago
You can actually make the Super-Key usable again. Goto Region and Language -> Keyboard Layout Options and tick "Hyper is mapped to Win-keys" [1]. After that, you can use the super key again for shortcuts. I moved the activity window to Super-A but actually never use it. [1] Image: http://www.andre-gawron.de/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/key.png http://www.andre-gawron.de/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/key.pn... [2] Full blog entry: http://www.andre-gawron.de/383/amsterdam-peek-gnome-3-a-new-hobby http://www.andre-gawron.de/383/amsterdam-peek-gnome-3-a-new-...
- thristian 15y ago
  Just checking that I've got this correct: you set the 'Hyper is mapped to Win keys' option in the keyboard config, you set GNOME 3 to use 'Super' to activate the overlay, then re-configure your other shortcuts to use 'Hyper' instead of 'Super' (or 'Mod4')?
  - andregawron 15y ago
    Hyper, Super ... I'm talking about mod4 (on most keyboards the win-key right to L-CTRL). The overlay is normally activated by pressing mod4. With the stated option ticked, triggering the overlay with mod4 doesn't work anymore (when I remember correctly) - but every other shortcut using mod4 + anykey works again. To get to the overlay using a shortcut, I set it to mod4 + a.
    - thristian 15y ago
      Ah, right. That's probably a nicer way of doing it since you don't have to mess with gconf-editor. Personally, I cleared /apps/mutter/general/overlay_key (which prevents the overlay from being triggered by any modifier, which got my mod4 bindings working again. I set /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/panel_main_menu to "<Mod4>Escape", which on GNOME 2.x activates the Applications menu, but on GNOME 3.x activates the overlay.
Kwpolska 15y ago
If an application has a hidden menu in the newer Windowses, Alt shows it.
andor 15y ago
To be fair, I've nobbled that particular behaviour of GNOME 3.0 because it prevents using the Super key for any other keyboard shortcuts. Is this really the case on your system? I've always had a shortcut to gnome-terminal on Mod4+T and I can't remember having any problems since I upgraded to Fedora 15.
- thristian 15y ago
  "any" is a generalisation; more specifically, gnome-shell breaks per-window keyboard shortcuts. My Mod4+N for 'new terminal' and Mod4+R for 'run command' shortcuts worked fine, but Mod4+W for 'close window' and Mod4+X for 'toggle maximize' were broken.

heelhook 15y ago

Well. You could argue the Super key is not a Modifier key, afaik it was popularized as they "Windows" key, which when it became popular pressing it by itself caused the start menu to open, doing something similar to what one of the most popular operating systems (XP) gas done is at least not something unexpected to normal users. That said, I switched back to Gnome 2 because I find Gnome 3 basically unusable for anything other than browsing the web in a single window. Also, in case someone mistakes my point of view I should say I don't use windows nor like it at all.

walrus 15y ago

You can change the activities/overview screen shortcut in the 'Shortcuts' tab of the keyboard settings panel. It's located under the 'System' category. I personally chose win-space instead of just win.

ootachi 15y ago

The primary function of the Windows key has been to open the Start menu since the day it was introduced. The modifier key aspect of it was always secondary.

1amzave 15y ago
...but that's Windows, this is not. I don't see why Microsoft's mistakes should carry over. On my keyboard, it's not even physically labeled as the "windows" key anway, it says "option" (or, if I didn't have things re-mapped, "command").
joe_the_user 15y ago
So has Microsoft broken the modifier function too? My memory of Windows was that the Win key worked as global system modifier key. But it's been a while now...
- zokier 15y ago
  In Windows tapping Win key opens Start menu, but holding it down allows it to be used as modifier. So opening Start menu is triggered by falling edge, if no other key was pressed in combination.
- zootm 15y ago
  It works as a modifier if you press another key with it, else it focuses the Start Menu.
- pak 15y ago
  It was broken from the start, since it was introduced in conjunction with Win95 and at that point it was designed to trigger the Start menu with a single press.
ConstantineXVI 15y ago
AFAIK (and this[1] seems to back it up), the Windows key has always been used for system-wide shortcuts since it's introduction in Win95. (I apologize for the historical artifact of a webpage linked below) [1]http://members.fortunecity.com/buchta/PCTourCD/files/win/Overview/ShortcutsWindows.htm#winkey http://members.fortunecity.com/buchta/PCTourCD/files/win/Ove...

bokchoi 15y ago

I agree. I think a double-super (that's two super presses in a row) would have been much better, but would be less discoverable.

Tichy 15y ago

Never heard of the modifier key, but it sounds like a stupid idea. How are you supposed to discover that magic key? I think the point of UIs is to make documentation superfluous. If I have to read about that key in the docs, the UI has failed.

lloeki 15y ago
The UI should tell it. For example the right-click menu, which shows possible actions, could tell you which one is called when modifier+clicking. Or maybe under the popover of the name of the app it oculd say "ctrl+click to open a new window".
lubutu 15y ago
Ctrl is a modifier key. You'd really prefer not to have Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V, etc? Each to their own, I suppose.
- Tichy 15y ago
  Does Ctrl-C and so on not work in Gnome 3 anymore? Maybe I misunderstood what the OP was trying to say. I thought he meant a key that changes the menus. Also Ctrl-C and so on are only keyboard shortcuts. Most "normal" people probably don't know about them.

roel_v 15y ago

I guess you're just misunderstanding the concept of the key. A modifier key is only modifying when you press something at the same time. So when you do alt-a, that's a modifier; when you just press and release, it does something else. Quite simple, I never had a problem with it.