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>I think there is a market for datacenters in open seas. The idea of having a isolated sovereign floating platform in the ocean doesn't doesn't really solve th

by jasode 5y ago

>I think there is a market for datacenters in open seas. The idea of having a isolated sovereign floating platform in the ocean doesn't doesn't really solve the problem of escaping the rules of national governments because it still needs network connections into those countries. Whether it's underseas fiber optic cables or bouncing signals off of satellites, the datacenter will be rendered useless if nations' citizens get a "This site can’t be reached. [...] ERR_CONNECTION_TIMED_OUT" It addition to the physical network topology challenges, the ip address space allocation is controlled by IANA ... which is a government entity.

ghaff 5y ago
Exactly. Sealand/HavenCo could Play their micronation thing right up until the UK cut their supply and comms links. Does it raise the bar for bothering to do that? Sure. But it’s certainly not absolute protection.
- bluGill 5y ago
  The trick is to grow big enough that by the time anyone thinks cutting your links you are big enough that you can't fail. I have no idea how to pull that off.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    I would think being bigger makes you more of a target not less.
    - TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
      Indeed. A better idea might be to use custom in-house tech and avoid all public protocols and service providers. (Except TCP/IP. Maybe.) The premise that you can buy secure comms from a commercial third party is... unconvincing.
    - bluGill 5y ago
      There is a limit to that. North Korea does a lot of things that no government likes, but so far they are okay. There are a lot of bigger countries that have even more immunity to targeting.
  - chii 5y ago
    > I have no idea how to pull that off. you start with a military force that is enough to prevent another sovereign nation from doing something bad like cutting off your comm link, or forcing or freezing your bank account...
    - ghostwriter 5y ago
      Which means starting with a globally distributed computer that operates on the level above any military’s capacity to control a territory/populace…
    - AcerbicZero 5y ago
      A small and geographically distributed nuclear arsenal would also be a good starting point if you wanted to avoid having the large standing army needed for conventional deterrence. Still doesn’t solve the banking issues, but one problem at a time I suppose.
    - bluGill 5y ago
      Sure, but I have no idea how to pull that off. I have lots of other ideas that should work, but I don't know how to pull any of them off in practice.
    - stjohnswarts 5y ago
      Which is basically impossible. No old military platform in the ocean would be able to do that.
- dane-pgp 5y ago
  > right up until the UK cut their supply and comms links. So if a referendum in Switzerland passed tomorrow which changed the law so that the Swiss government had to refuse to process any foreign warrants requesting IP addresses of email users, would France cut their trade and comms links to Switzerland?
dexen 5y ago
>Whether it's underseas fiber optic cables or bouncing signals off of satellites, the datacenter will be rendered useless if nations' citizens get a "This site can’t be reached. [...] ERR_CONNECTION_TIMED_OUT" Not if Elon succeeds with Starlink: >>@thesheetztweetz: How does transmitting into a country without a local downlink work on the regulatory side? >@elonmusk: They can shake their fist at the sky [0] For context, certain countries like India have quite strict regulation of satellite comms, requiring special permission[1] even to use plain consumer tech like Iridium. I presume EU would also try to tightly regulate consumer satellite comms, just like it requires real (government issued) ID to use cell phones - specifically to register locally purchased SIM cards, again for national security reasons. [0] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1433123220643717120 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1433123220643717120 [1] https://www.osac.gov/Content/Report/9db45731-1eec-477a-a7af-1bf950cb4013 https://www.osac.gov/Content/Report/9db45731-1eec-477a-a7af-... >There are multiple instances of authorities confiscating undeclared satellite phones from foreign travelers upon arrival in India. The official notice states: "All foreigners travelling to India are hereby informed that it is illegal to use/carry Thuraya or other such satellite phones in India. Custom authorities in India may seize such phones and legal action may be taken against the passenger concerned."
- arpanetus 5y ago
  Elon is a citizen(subject) of the US, as well as his enterprise.
- IncRnd 5y ago
  You can't expect Elon Musk to solve your woes regarding your being under the jurisdiction of your government. Elon and his companies, sattelites, etc. are subject to regulation, despite his marketing.

by jasode 5y ago

ghaff 5y ago

Exactly. Sealand/HavenCo could Play their micronation thing right up until the UK cut their supply and comms links. Does it raise the bar for bothering to do that? Sure. But it’s certainly not absolute protection.

bluGill 5y ago
The trick is to grow big enough that by the time anyone thinks cutting your links you are big enough that you can't fail. I have no idea how to pull that off.
- ghaff 5y ago
  I would think being bigger makes you more of a target not less.
  - TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
    Indeed. A better idea might be to use custom in-house tech and avoid all public protocols and service providers. (Except TCP/IP. Maybe.) The premise that you can buy secure comms from a commercial third party is... unconvincing.
  - bluGill 5y ago
    There is a limit to that. North Korea does a lot of things that no government likes, but so far they are okay. There are a lot of bigger countries that have even more immunity to targeting.
- chii 5y ago
  > I have no idea how to pull that off. you start with a military force that is enough to prevent another sovereign nation from doing something bad like cutting off your comm link, or forcing or freezing your bank account...
  - ghostwriter 5y ago
    Which means starting with a globally distributed computer that operates on the level above any military’s capacity to control a territory/populace…
  - AcerbicZero 5y ago
    A small and geographically distributed nuclear arsenal would also be a good starting point if you wanted to avoid having the large standing army needed for conventional deterrence. Still doesn’t solve the banking issues, but one problem at a time I suppose.
  - bluGill 5y ago
    Sure, but I have no idea how to pull that off. I have lots of other ideas that should work, but I don't know how to pull any of them off in practice.
  - stjohnswarts 5y ago
    Which is basically impossible. No old military platform in the ocean would be able to do that.
dane-pgp 5y ago
> right up until the UK cut their supply and comms links. So if a referendum in Switzerland passed tomorrow which changed the law so that the Swiss government had to refuse to process any foreign warrants requesting IP addresses of email users, would France cut their trade and comms links to Switzerland?

dexen 5y ago

>Whether it's underseas fiber optic cables or bouncing signals off of satellites, the datacenter will be rendered useless if nations' citizens get a "This site can’t be reached. [...] ERR_CONNECTION_TIMED_OUT" Not if Elon succeeds with Starlink: >>@thesheetztweetz: How does transmitting into a country without a local downlink work on the regulatory side? >@elonmusk: They can shake their fist at the sky [0] For context, certain countries like India have quite strict regulation of satellite comms, requiring special permission[1] even to use plain consumer tech like Iridium. I presume EU would also try to tightly regulate consumer satellite comms, just like it requires real (government issued) ID to use cell phones - specifically to register locally purchased SIM cards, again for national security reasons. [0] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1433123220643717120 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1433123220643717120 [1] https://www.osac.gov/Content/Report/9db45731-1eec-477a-a7af-1bf950cb4013 https://www.osac.gov/Content/Report/9db45731-1eec-477a-a7af-... >There are multiple instances of authorities confiscating undeclared satellite phones from foreign travelers upon arrival in India. The official notice states: "All foreigners travelling to India are hereby informed that it is illegal to use/carry Thuraya or other such satellite phones in India. Custom authorities in India may seize such phones and legal action may be taken against the passenger concerned."

arpanetus 5y ago
Elon is a citizen(subject) of the US, as well as his enterprise.
IncRnd 5y ago
You can't expect Elon Musk to solve your woes regarding your being under the jurisdiction of your government. Elon and his companies, sattelites, etc. are subject to regulation, despite his marketing.