5 ms·

Not worse, just as bad in a different way, it has nothing to do with geography. It is just that absolute power corrupts absolutely, regardless of the players of

by Yaa101 5y ago

Not worse, just as bad in a different way, it has nothing to do with geography. It is just that absolute power corrupts absolutely, regardless of the players of this power game.

dgfitz 5y ago
“The current US system of governing is shit, it’s just the best we’ve found so far.” - Poorly paraphrased quote by not-me While I agree with the sentiment, I also acknowledge others disagree and my no means do I wish to argue about it. Friendly conversation, sure. =)
chroem- 5y ago
I won't be executed in the US for doing the wrong kind of yoga. Also, as an aside, I wonder if 1930s HN would have guidelines against "nationalistic flamewars" vs. nazi Germany.
- DenisM 5y ago
  Thoughtful criticism is welcome on HN, breathless fulminations are not. There are other venues for the latter.
  - zzzbra 5y ago
    “breathless fulminations” — this is such a a great expression, thank you!
  - howaboutnope 5y ago
    > Can’t wait for the comment thread here about how the US gov is actually worse than the CCP > Not worse, just as bad in a different way, it has nothing to do with geography. It is just that absolute power corrupts absolutely, regardless of the players of this power game. How are either of these "breathless fulminations"? Or this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28439648 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28439648 ? To give this as the reason is just reading from the teleprompter without even looking at what's in front of you. Meanwhile, rants about programming paradigms or coworkers, big companies, all of those and more can be rather colorful, it's mostly when stepping on the boots things get painted as rabid rants at the drop of a hat. Yet, what intellectual who is more than a vulgar stooge of power doesn't have a violent and uncompromising antipathy against those who would murder people for expressing the wrong opinion, or even simply for acknowledging historical facts? edit: I love how this was downvoted within a minute. > If you wish to be useful, never take a course that will silence you. Refuse to learn anything that implies collusion, whether it be a clerkship or a curacy, a legal fee or a post in a university. Retain the power of speech no matter what other power you may lose. If you can take this course, and in so far as you take it, you will bless this country. In so far as you depart from this course, you become dampers, mutes, and hooded executioners. -- John J. Chapman
echelon 5y ago
In the US, you can prosecute and vote out bad behavior. There are also term limits, investigation boards, and laws whose spirit are to protect the people. Yes, bad actors can thrive in any climate. But the US is set up with an immune defense against totalitarian authority and exploits.
- scotty79 5y ago
  Given how many systems in US fail and at what scale it seems that those mechanisms that you mention when compared with other civilized countries are very much inadequate.
  - adventured 5y ago
    The US is the one of the more long-term stable democracies in world history. I would challenge you to produce the list of democracies (and yes, of course the US is a democratic Constitutional Republic, not a majority rule democracy), spanning merely the past 100 years, that have been stable the entire time. It's an exceptionally short list. The two party system in the US produces a high degree of stability at the cost of increased rigidity. Compare that to the not infrequent chaos of N party systems across Europe (as in Greece, Italy), or the way eg Australia has turned over its leadership in such a rapid fashion as to make governance nearly impossible. If you go back a hundred years, Europe was still governing like it was stuck centuries in the past, ruled by monarchies. The rest of the world was even more backwards. This says it all: https://i.imgur.com/4QhaQkn.png https://i.imgur.com/4QhaQkn.png
    - scotty79 5y ago
      Your chart seems to be drawn according to some very strict and modern definition of democracy. I don't know history of countries in Europe, but in regards to stability some form of democracy was a form of government in Poland since XV century with pauses for getting raided and split up and ruled by our strong neighbors. We had kings but they were elected by the people (who owned land) since XVI century on average every 19 years [1] and had their power limited by political influence, in quite similar manner that US presidents have. And in nearly all elections our people had wider choice in candidates for kings than Americans had with candidates for presidents ever. We had a written constitution just 4 years later than the USA had it. So yeah, democracy can be stable and evolve without being a two party system. Recently Poland had a few rough years but it's mostly due to our recent tendency to get polarized towards 2 party system by intentional messaging of one party over last 20 years. So if your argument is USA must have all the dysfunctions because keeping every last detail of the system that is unable to fix them is the only way to maintain stability, then you are probably not quite right. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_elections_in_Poland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_elections_in_Poland

by Yaa101 5y ago

Not worse, just as bad in a different way, it has nothing to do with geography. It is just that absolute power corrupts absolutely, regardless of the players of this power game.

dgfitz 5y ago

“The current US system of governing is shit, it’s just the best we’ve found so far.” - Poorly paraphrased quote by not-me While I agree with the sentiment, I also acknowledge others disagree and my no means do I wish to argue about it. Friendly conversation, sure. =)

chroem- 5y ago

I won't be executed in the US for doing the wrong kind of yoga. Also, as an aside, I wonder if 1930s HN would have guidelines against "nationalistic flamewars" vs. nazi Germany.

DenisM 5y ago
Thoughtful criticism is welcome on HN, breathless fulminations are not. There are other venues for the latter.
- zzzbra 5y ago
  “breathless fulminations” — this is such a a great expression, thank you!
- howaboutnope 5y ago
  > Can’t wait for the comment thread here about how the US gov is actually worse than the CCP > Not worse, just as bad in a different way, it has nothing to do with geography. It is just that absolute power corrupts absolutely, regardless of the players of this power game. How are either of these "breathless fulminations"? Or this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28439648 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28439648 ? To give this as the reason is just reading from the teleprompter without even looking at what's in front of you. Meanwhile, rants about programming paradigms or coworkers, big companies, all of those and more can be rather colorful, it's mostly when stepping on the boots things get painted as rabid rants at the drop of a hat. Yet, what intellectual who is more than a vulgar stooge of power doesn't have a violent and uncompromising antipathy against those who would murder people for expressing the wrong opinion, or even simply for acknowledging historical facts? edit: I love how this was downvoted within a minute. > If you wish to be useful, never take a course that will silence you. Refuse to learn anything that implies collusion, whether it be a clerkship or a curacy, a legal fee or a post in a university. Retain the power of speech no matter what other power you may lose. If you can take this course, and in so far as you take it, you will bless this country. In so far as you depart from this course, you become dampers, mutes, and hooded executioners. -- John J. Chapman

echelon 5y ago

In the US, you can prosecute and vote out bad behavior. There are also term limits, investigation boards, and laws whose spirit are to protect the people. Yes, bad actors can thrive in any climate. But the US is set up with an immune defense against totalitarian authority and exploits.

scotty79 5y ago
Given how many systems in US fail and at what scale it seems that those mechanisms that you mention when compared with other civilized countries are very much inadequate.
- adventured 5y ago
  The US is the one of the more long-term stable democracies in world history. I would challenge you to produce the list of democracies (and yes, of course the US is a democratic Constitutional Republic, not a majority rule democracy), spanning merely the past 100 years, that have been stable the entire time. It's an exceptionally short list. The two party system in the US produces a high degree of stability at the cost of increased rigidity. Compare that to the not infrequent chaos of N party systems across Europe (as in Greece, Italy), or the way eg Australia has turned over its leadership in such a rapid fashion as to make governance nearly impossible. If you go back a hundred years, Europe was still governing like it was stuck centuries in the past, ruled by monarchies. The rest of the world was even more backwards. This says it all: https://i.imgur.com/4QhaQkn.png https://i.imgur.com/4QhaQkn.png
  - scotty79 5y ago
    Your chart seems to be drawn according to some very strict and modern definition of democracy. I don't know history of countries in Europe, but in regards to stability some form of democracy was a form of government in Poland since XV century with pauses for getting raided and split up and ruled by our strong neighbors. We had kings but they were elected by the people (who owned land) since XVI century on average every 19 years [1] and had their power limited by political influence, in quite similar manner that US presidents have. And in nearly all elections our people had wider choice in candidates for kings than Americans had with candidates for presidents ever. We had a written constitution just 4 years later than the USA had it. So yeah, democracy can be stable and evolve without being a two party system. Recently Poland had a few rough years but it's mostly due to our recent tendency to get polarized towards 2 party system by intentional messaging of one party over last 20 years. So if your argument is USA must have all the dysfunctions because keeping every last detail of the system that is unable to fix them is the only way to maintain stability, then you are probably not quite right. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_elections_in_Poland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_elections_in_Poland