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>If I encounter a bug, I stop all forward movement, and fix it; even if it is a "small" bug. Reading through the Toyota production system this is one of the th

by carlmr 5y ago

>If I encounter a bug, I stop all forward movement, and fix it; even if it is a "small" bug. Reading through the Toyota production system this is one of the things that is recommended for finding issues early before they become big issues. Stop the manufacturing line, find out what's wrong, fix it, continue. At the beginning you will be stopping a lot, and I still am in awe of the manager that got this technique approved the first time, but after a while you will find that you just produce fewer bugs by virtue of a) recognizing patterns in how you produce bugs and avoiding them, and b) not having to work around as much technical debt, these clever workarounds are what bites you later.

ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
If I recall, Toyota was really the company that prototyped a lot of techniques that have informed Agile, and other Lean/JIT processes.
- carlmr 5y ago
  I think so, but I never saw this stop the process type quality thinking from any agile proponents.
- marcosdumay 5y ago
  The manufacture Lean and JIT were disseminated by Toyota. But the software development things called of Lean and JIT aren't exactly equivalents of the manufacture versions of them. I also disagree that the equivalent of stopping the production when you spot a defect is fixing your bugs as soon as you see them. The equivalent would be something more meta, as asking yourself why that bug was created and changing the way you work (like in adding a linter rule).
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - carlmr 5y ago
    >The equivalent would be something more meta, as asking yourself why that bug was created and changing the way you work (like in adding a linter rule). Which is exactly what you do after stopping that production line and finding the issue.
- xorcist 5y ago
  The very idea that software should be produced by the same production techniques we use to manufacture cars is a sickness, and the sooner it can be eradicated from popular culture the better. It's everywhere from Lean to that insufferable Mary Sue of the Phoenix book. It makes for decent storytelling, but it has nothing to do with how any successful software has ever been made. There is no assembly line and we do not pause it. It is a parable that is actively unhelpful. Lean manufacturing was not even invented to develop or design cars, so it's purported origins doesn't even make sense. See also "software is like construction work" which used to be popular before. That wasn't useful either, and anyone who's seen the construction business knows it's nothing like management literature of yesteryear would make it out to be. Sorry for the rant. I don't hate agile. This just happens to be a sore spot, comparing software to "a car" is intellectually lazy. We should be able to do better. It's easy to imagine the day when someone asks why we can't design cars the same way we design software. Not the other way around.
- nivenhuh 5y ago
  Specifically, Toyota was responsible for developing the Kanban methodology.

by carlmr 5y ago

ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago

If I recall, Toyota was really the company that prototyped a lot of techniques that have informed Agile, and other Lean/JIT processes.

carlmr 5y ago
I think so, but I never saw this stop the process type quality thinking from any agile proponents.
marcosdumay 5y ago
The manufacture Lean and JIT were disseminated by Toyota. But the software development things called of Lean and JIT aren't exactly equivalents of the manufacture versions of them. I also disagree that the equivalent of stopping the production when you spot a defect is fixing your bugs as soon as you see them. The equivalent would be something more meta, as asking yourself why that bug was created and changing the way you work (like in adding a linter rule).
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- carlmr 5y ago
  >The equivalent would be something more meta, as asking yourself why that bug was created and changing the way you work (like in adding a linter rule). Which is exactly what you do after stopping that production line and finding the issue.
xorcist 5y ago
The very idea that software should be produced by the same production techniques we use to manufacture cars is a sickness, and the sooner it can be eradicated from popular culture the better. It's everywhere from Lean to that insufferable Mary Sue of the Phoenix book. It makes for decent storytelling, but it has nothing to do with how any successful software has ever been made. There is no assembly line and we do not pause it. It is a parable that is actively unhelpful. Lean manufacturing was not even invented to develop or design cars, so it's purported origins doesn't even make sense. See also "software is like construction work" which used to be popular before. That wasn't useful either, and anyone who's seen the construction business knows it's nothing like management literature of yesteryear would make it out to be. Sorry for the rant. I don't hate agile. This just happens to be a sore spot, comparing software to "a car" is intellectually lazy. We should be able to do better. It's easy to imagine the day when someone asks why we can't design cars the same way we design software. Not the other way around.
nivenhuh 5y ago
Specifically, Toyota was responsible for developing the Kanban methodology.