3 ms·

...really?

bbvxxdrgjn 5y ago
Uh, yes. If you think the modern US government and Winnie the Pooh's wannabe Nazi empire are even in the same league, you are likely a CCP plant. The US has done a lot of incoherent, incompetent, and bad things. But the US won't disappear you if you say the wrong thing about Biden and isn't in the middle of literally rounding up an ethnic and religious minority and putting them in camps to cleanse their society of that ethnicity. Just as a start. So yes, really. Fucking idiots.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
quickthrowman 5y ago
Let me pose a pair of questions that might make this easier to understand: -Is the US government currently involved in ethnic cleansing? -Is China currently involved in ethnic cleansing?
- refenestrator 5y ago
  The US was killing more central asians than China every year of the last 20 years straight. Hopefully no longer true going forward. So, I guess it comes down to definitions and how you spin things. Personally, I'd say the country that killed more people was doing more bad stuff, but you can bracket things and explain why some 'count' more than others if you want.
  - MathCodeLove 5y ago
    > The US was killing more central asians than China every year of the last 20 years straight. Hopefully no longer true going forward. That's absolutely a fallacious comparison. 1. We don't have accurate data from China on the number imprisoned and killed by them, so no one can make absolutely comparisons like you did. 2. The Chinese do this to people living peacefully inside their borders. If the US started rounding up and killing ethnic minorities WW2 concentration camp style then you could make this comparison. The US was engaged in active conflict with a group that itself was detrimental to human (specifically, women's) rights and that engaged us first. I dont agree with a lot of what happened in the middle east, but you can't in good fairh stretch that as a comparison to fit your own narrative.
    - refenestrator 5y ago
      There's those qualifications and spin I was asking for. China is bringing economic development, secular institutions and women's rights, in a heavy handed way, whether the residents want it or not, with minimal regard for costs to those residents. It's the exact same thing as we've been doing, minus a fig leaf of democracy. In neither case is the word genocide or ethnic cleansing appropriate, body counts don't support it. But it's especially rich to level the accusation 5 seconds after our 20 year war ended.
      - MathCodeLove 5y ago
        Note the word "war". They killed us as well. Again, this is not comprable to the situation in China with the Uighur Muslims. Unless you're one of those running these camps, you don't have an accurate body count, so you don't know what word is or is not appropriate. Based on the perceived scale of the operation, genocide seems very much correct, but I have no more information than you. I don't understand how you can sit here and compare a war in the middle east to literal concentration camps. Stop performing mental gymnastics to fit your own narrative.
        refenestrator 5y ago
        Because dead is dead. If you can't read, who cares what the declaration of war said. It's counterinsurgency in both cases, attempting to modernize a tribal Muslim society in hopes of improving security from terror attacks. You are aware there were terror attacks in Urumqi? There are differences between their style and ours, the re-education camps vs the drone bombs. Maybe there's an argument about freedoms vs deaths. But Americans clearly do not actually give a shit about Muslim lives, it's just a political talking point. 300k dead in Yemen with our weapons doesn't even make the news, Afghanistan barely cracked the news for a decade, etc etc. How many Americans were baying at the moon to invade Iraq and now they're the world's greatest humanitarians about Xinjiang?
    - nemothekid 5y ago
      >2. The Chinese do this to people living peacefully inside their borders. If the US started rounding up and killing ethnic minorities WW2 concentration camp style then you could make this comparison. The US was engaged in active conflict with a group that itself was detrimental to human (specifically, women's) rights and that engaged us first. This kind of whitewashing is what allows us as Americans to ignore the mass scale death we inflict while pointing fingers at other kettles. You don't even have the cause of events correct - we invaded afghanistan first, America were the aggressors. Do you think we invaded Afghanistan to preserve women's rights? Do you know that American soldiers were told to turn a blind eye to the afghan national army raping little boys? You mention that we don't have accurate numbers about china's tyranny, but under Trump, we repealed the rule that the USG had to report drone strike casualties. I'm not surprised other countries don't see a functional difference between the US and China, after all only one of those countries has a solid track record of overturning democratically conducted elections because they didn't like the outcome.
- rakoo 5y ago
  This is a very narrow view of the problem at hand. Let me show you another narrow view that illustrates why it's not enough: - How many governments has the US toppled in an undemocratic process ? - How many governments has China toppled in an undemocratic process ? We could go on and on about this, to make a clear opinion on the subject requires far more than a single question.

...really?

Uh, yes. If you think the modern US government and Winnie the Pooh's wannabe Nazi empire are even in the same league, you are likely a CCP plant. The US has done a lot of incoherent, incompetent, and bad things. But the US won't disappear you if you say the wrong thing about Biden and isn't in the middle of literally rounding up an ethnic and religious minority and putting them in camps to cleanse their society of that ethnicity. Just as a start. So yes, really. Fucking idiots.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

quickthrowman 5y ago

Let me pose a pair of questions that might make this easier to understand: -Is the US government currently involved in ethnic cleansing? -Is China currently involved in ethnic cleansing?

refenestrator 5y ago
The US was killing more central asians than China every year of the last 20 years straight. Hopefully no longer true going forward. So, I guess it comes down to definitions and how you spin things. Personally, I'd say the country that killed more people was doing more bad stuff, but you can bracket things and explain why some 'count' more than others if you want.
- MathCodeLove 5y ago
  > The US was killing more central asians than China every year of the last 20 years straight. Hopefully no longer true going forward. That's absolutely a fallacious comparison. 1. We don't have accurate data from China on the number imprisoned and killed by them, so no one can make absolutely comparisons like you did. 2. The Chinese do this to people living peacefully inside their borders. If the US started rounding up and killing ethnic minorities WW2 concentration camp style then you could make this comparison. The US was engaged in active conflict with a group that itself was detrimental to human (specifically, women's) rights and that engaged us first. I dont agree with a lot of what happened in the middle east, but you can't in good fairh stretch that as a comparison to fit your own narrative.
  - refenestrator 5y ago
    There's those qualifications and spin I was asking for. China is bringing economic development, secular institutions and women's rights, in a heavy handed way, whether the residents want it or not, with minimal regard for costs to those residents. It's the exact same thing as we've been doing, minus a fig leaf of democracy. In neither case is the word genocide or ethnic cleansing appropriate, body counts don't support it. But it's especially rich to level the accusation 5 seconds after our 20 year war ended.
    - MathCodeLove 5y ago
      Note the word "war". They killed us as well. Again, this is not comprable to the situation in China with the Uighur Muslims. Unless you're one of those running these camps, you don't have an accurate body count, so you don't know what word is or is not appropriate. Based on the perceived scale of the operation, genocide seems very much correct, but I have no more information than you. I don't understand how you can sit here and compare a war in the middle east to literal concentration camps. Stop performing mental gymnastics to fit your own narrative.
      - refenestrator 5y ago
        Because dead is dead. If you can't read, who cares what the declaration of war said. It's counterinsurgency in both cases, attempting to modernize a tribal Muslim society in hopes of improving security from terror attacks. You are aware there were terror attacks in Urumqi? There are differences between their style and ours, the re-education camps vs the drone bombs. Maybe there's an argument about freedoms vs deaths. But Americans clearly do not actually give a shit about Muslim lives, it's just a political talking point. 300k dead in Yemen with our weapons doesn't even make the news, Afghanistan barely cracked the news for a decade, etc etc. How many Americans were baying at the moon to invade Iraq and now they're the world's greatest humanitarians about Xinjiang?
  - nemothekid 5y ago
    >2. The Chinese do this to people living peacefully inside their borders. If the US started rounding up and killing ethnic minorities WW2 concentration camp style then you could make this comparison. The US was engaged in active conflict with a group that itself was detrimental to human (specifically, women's) rights and that engaged us first. This kind of whitewashing is what allows us as Americans to ignore the mass scale death we inflict while pointing fingers at other kettles. You don't even have the cause of events correct - we invaded afghanistan first, America were the aggressors. Do you think we invaded Afghanistan to preserve women's rights? Do you know that American soldiers were told to turn a blind eye to the afghan national army raping little boys? You mention that we don't have accurate numbers about china's tyranny, but under Trump, we repealed the rule that the USG had to report drone strike casualties. I'm not surprised other countries don't see a functional difference between the US and China, after all only one of those countries has a solid track record of overturning democratically conducted elections because they didn't like the outcome.
rakoo 5y ago
This is a very narrow view of the problem at hand. Let me show you another narrow view that illustrates why it's not enough: - How many governments has the US toppled in an undemocratic process ? - How many governments has China toppled in an undemocratic process ? We could go on and on about this, to make a clear opinion on the subject requires far more than a single question.