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Define “aberration”? As of 2015, police via civil forfeiture stole more than burglars. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/11/23/cops-took-more-stu

Define “aberration”? As of 2015, police via civil forfeiture stole more than burglars. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/11/23/cops-took-more-stuff-from-people-than-burglars-did-last-year/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/11/23/cops-...

adventured 5y ago
An estimated $68.8 billion over 20 years approximately, between state and federal authorities. The Institute for Justice has published a couple of their Policing for Profit profiles (that attempts to keep track of and update on civil asset forfeiture figures and progress/regression), with the most recent in 2020. California is averaging $25m per year the past 17 years; Illinois is averaging $33m per year; Texas is averaging $18m per year; Florida is averaging $49m per year. Some of the best states are Idaho, Montana, Wisconsin, New Mexico, Maine, New Hampshire, Virginia, Colorado, West Virginia, Iowa, Wyoming, Hawaii, Oregon, Connecticut and Missouri. Here's an infographic by the Institute for Justice for 2018, sizing the states by their civil asset forfeiture thefts (note, the color of the box doesn't coordinate to the scale of theft, that coordinates to state law grades): https://i.imgur.com/sqg4FiC.jpg https://i.imgur.com/sqg4FiC.jpg It's too bad these scumbags aren't targeting Michael Dell ($50b), Jim Walton ($65b) or MacKenzie Scott ($61b) with civil asset forfeiture. Sorry MacKenzie, that Amazon stock no longer belongs to you, it has been 'impounded' by the Washington State Police. It's being held as, uhm, evidence that you may have had a role in the operation of a massive counterfeit goods ring. Congress or the Supreme Court might finally get around to stopping the practice (or maybe they'd just place a ceiling on how much you can steal from one person).
- stevespang 5y ago
  . . ."you may have had a role in the operation of a massive counterfeit goods ring" - - - only that the wealthy folks you mentioned have access to any dozens of high profile lawyers which would cost them less than 1/100th of 1% of their assets. This is all about targeting the middle and poor class - - - whom in too many cases cannot afford to hire decent attorneys just to try to get back what was stolen from them, especially if the legal cost it is equal to or less than the amount stolen. So called "Justice for All" was never "EQUAL Justice for All" - - even though it's a hideous mockery that "Equal Justice for All" is on the side of the US Supreme Court Building.
throwaway894345 5y ago
So what are the odds that it happens to a given American or tourist? Ideally we could accept that this (or any other given topic) is bad without feeling the need to exaggerate its significance to ourselves. This is what I miss the most about the pre-Twitter days. Bring on the downvotes.
- me_me_me 5y ago
  if you are tourist you might as well paint a bullseye on your car. How a tourist is going to fight in a foreign country against police of that country?
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    This is pretty easily testable. If tourists have “a bullseye” on them, then surely we would expect a significant share of tourists have experienced CF—say 25%. So where is the evidence that a quarter of tourists to the US have said experience?
xyzzyz 5y ago
Not all civil forfeiture is theft. Too much of it is, to be sure, but it is still mostly used to forfeit proceedings of crime.
- loeg 5y ago
  It’s all theft. Restitution and fines can be assessed without guilty-until-proven-innocent forfeiture.
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  If a person committed a crime and you can prove it, charge them with the crime then take whatever assets you can prove were gained from criminal activity. There is no merit in civil asset forfeiture whatsoever, regardless if it is done to criminals or everyone else.

adventured 5y ago

An estimated $68.8 billion over 20 years approximately, between state and federal authorities. The Institute for Justice has published a couple of their Policing for Profit profiles (that attempts to keep track of and update on civil asset forfeiture figures and progress/regression), with the most recent in 2020. California is averaging $25m per year the past 17 years; Illinois is averaging $33m per year; Texas is averaging $18m per year; Florida is averaging $49m per year. Some of the best states are Idaho, Montana, Wisconsin, New Mexico, Maine, New Hampshire, Virginia, Colorado, West Virginia, Iowa, Wyoming, Hawaii, Oregon, Connecticut and Missouri. Here's an infographic by the Institute for Justice for 2018, sizing the states by their civil asset forfeiture thefts (note, the color of the box doesn't coordinate to the scale of theft, that coordinates to state law grades): https://i.imgur.com/sqg4FiC.jpg https://i.imgur.com/sqg4FiC.jpg It's too bad these scumbags aren't targeting Michael Dell ($50b), Jim Walton ($65b) or MacKenzie Scott ($61b) with civil asset forfeiture. Sorry MacKenzie, that Amazon stock no longer belongs to you, it has been 'impounded' by the Washington State Police. It's being held as, uhm, evidence that you may have had a role in the operation of a massive counterfeit goods ring. Congress or the Supreme Court might finally get around to stopping the practice (or maybe they'd just place a ceiling on how much you can steal from one person).

stevespang 5y ago
. . ."you may have had a role in the operation of a massive counterfeit goods ring" - - - only that the wealthy folks you mentioned have access to any dozens of high profile lawyers which would cost them less than 1/100th of 1% of their assets. This is all about targeting the middle and poor class - - - whom in too many cases cannot afford to hire decent attorneys just to try to get back what was stolen from them, especially if the legal cost it is equal to or less than the amount stolen. So called "Justice for All" was never "EQUAL Justice for All" - - even though it's a hideous mockery that "Equal Justice for All" is on the side of the US Supreme Court Building.

throwaway894345 5y ago

So what are the odds that it happens to a given American or tourist? Ideally we could accept that this (or any other given topic) is bad without feeling the need to exaggerate its significance to ourselves. This is what I miss the most about the pre-Twitter days. Bring on the downvotes.

me_me_me 5y ago
if you are tourist you might as well paint a bullseye on your car. How a tourist is going to fight in a foreign country against police of that country?
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  This is pretty easily testable. If tourists have “a bullseye” on them, then surely we would expect a significant share of tourists have experienced CF—say 25%. So where is the evidence that a quarter of tourists to the US have said experience?

xyzzyz 5y ago

Not all civil forfeiture is theft. Too much of it is, to be sure, but it is still mostly used to forfeit proceedings of crime.

loeg 5y ago
It’s all theft. Restitution and fines can be assessed without guilty-until-proven-innocent forfeiture.
betwixthewires 5y ago
If a person committed a crime and you can prove it, charge them with the crime then take whatever assets you can prove were gained from criminal activity. There is no merit in civil asset forfeiture whatsoever, regardless if it is done to criminals or everyone else.