5 ms·

The phenomenon I find most baffling is the insistence that we not be concerned, in any way, about that percentage of apparent cases where the person is faking a

The phenomenon I find most baffling is the insistence that we not be concerned, in any way, about that percentage of apparent cases where the person is faking a condition / system / syndrome. As if this causes no harm whatsoever to the person (themself), families, and society. Isn't this its own condition which merits study and (separate) classification / treatment?

swayvil 5y ago
To induce mental disease via the internet. That might be a thing now. It may already be happening to millions of people. That's a really big deal. A way bigger deal than a bunch of kids trying to get attention by faking whatever.
- SavantIdiot 5y ago
  That is also the premise of these three great films, inducing disease/mind-control via digital communication: 1. Videodrome 2. They Live 3. Pontypool (which heavily references SnowCrash, the book) It would not surprise me if this becomes a concern this century (e.g., digital manipulation of the brain remotely).
  - swayvil 5y ago
    I totally agree. And I have watched all 3 of those. Pontypool. Woo! What a crazy idea. Bookwise, I recommend QNTM's "There is no Antimemetics Division" and Langford's BLIT.
    - SavantIdiot 5y ago
      Never heard of those last two, thanks for the tips!
      - swayvil 5y ago
        This is interesting https://modelelearning.com/2017/11/02/you-gotta-believe-me/ https://modelelearning.com/2017/11/02/you-gotta-believe-me/
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
UWillOwnNothing 5y ago
Once mental diseases became a virtue, faking them quickly became a vice. Vast swathes of the West are stuck playing status games under the guise of social justice.
- standardUser 5y ago
  Which begs the question, what should one do if they genuinely desire social justice and don't want to play games? It sometimes sounds as if the nay-sayers think this is an impossibility.
  - BTCOG 5y ago
    Actually physically go and affect change, rather than talking emptily on the internet? Seems a silly question to even ask such a thing.
    - standardUser 5y ago
      That prognosis strikes me as odd since so much social change occurs form organizing, communicating, writing and debating. All activities that benefit tremendously - incomparably! - from the internet.
      - Guthur 5y ago
        The problem in my opinion is that some of this social change erodes the very foundation of society and us as a species. I'm not talking about who rules or by what means we select them by but rather things that even define us as a species, what's the norm for humankind is under constant attack with the excuse of inclusiveness.
        idiotsecant 5y ago
        If find yourself shaking your fist at something the kids are doing and pontificating about how its the moral downfall of the species you should probably stop to consider whether you might have just gotten old. I'm sure every generation that's ever existed could have typed that post with a few madlibs and it all turned out fine.
joe_the_user 5y ago
The phenomenon I find most baffling is the insistence that we not be concerned, in any way, about that percentage of apparent cases where the person is faking a condition / system / syndrome. I don't know who you're talking to or what exactly you're referring to. If you read the article, phenomena is neither "faking it" nor is it "really Tourettes syndrome". IE, mass sociogenic illness is not "fake" but a result of humans being social organisms. Edit: And no one in the discussion I can see is expressing unconcern.
- klik99 5y ago
  This is like how people conflate psychosomatic effects as somehow ‘fake’, which they certainly aren’t. Your brain controls a lot and can cause a lot of very real not fake damage.
jollybean 5y ago
I don't think 'faking' is the right word here, as in kids conscientiously trying to mislead others by practising tics, calculating the performance etc.. But from the study it seems that it's not Tourettes either. The Placebo Effect is very real as well, and people weren't faking being sick in the first place, it's just that we're not as 'consciously in charge' as we might think. My armchair hunch that this is real phenom, and that we are much, much more impressionable than we imagine, and that so many of our attitudes, behaviours and ideas are grafted onto us as opposed to being choices we make. As noted when doctor's diagnosed kids as 'not having Tourettes', for many, the symptoms just disappeared - as though a more rational authoritative voice overcame some 'inner constructed belief'. I think this reaches into more than just behaviours, but all those complicated issues of 'identity' as well. It's an amazing thing it would be very fun to study.
monkeydreams 5y ago
There is nothing in the article which suggests that the patients are faking it. It is an unconscious response.

swayvil 5y ago

To induce mental disease via the internet. That might be a thing now. It may already be happening to millions of people. That's a really big deal. A way bigger deal than a bunch of kids trying to get attention by faking whatever.

SavantIdiot 5y ago
That is also the premise of these three great films, inducing disease/mind-control via digital communication: 1. Videodrome 2. They Live 3. Pontypool (which heavily references SnowCrash, the book) It would not surprise me if this becomes a concern this century (e.g., digital manipulation of the brain remotely).
- swayvil 5y ago
  I totally agree. And I have watched all 3 of those. Pontypool. Woo! What a crazy idea. Bookwise, I recommend QNTM's "There is no Antimemetics Division" and Langford's BLIT.
  - SavantIdiot 5y ago
    Never heard of those last two, thanks for the tips!
    - swayvil 5y ago
      This is interesting https://modelelearning.com/2017/11/02/you-gotta-believe-me/ https://modelelearning.com/2017/11/02/you-gotta-believe-me/
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

UWillOwnNothing 5y ago

Once mental diseases became a virtue, faking them quickly became a vice. Vast swathes of the West are stuck playing status games under the guise of social justice.

standardUser 5y ago
Which begs the question, what should one do if they genuinely desire social justice and don't want to play games? It sometimes sounds as if the nay-sayers think this is an impossibility.
- BTCOG 5y ago
  Actually physically go and affect change, rather than talking emptily on the internet? Seems a silly question to even ask such a thing.
  - standardUser 5y ago
    That prognosis strikes me as odd since so much social change occurs form organizing, communicating, writing and debating. All activities that benefit tremendously - incomparably! - from the internet.
    - Guthur 5y ago
      The problem in my opinion is that some of this social change erodes the very foundation of society and us as a species. I'm not talking about who rules or by what means we select them by but rather things that even define us as a species, what's the norm for humankind is under constant attack with the excuse of inclusiveness.
      - idiotsecant 5y ago
        If find yourself shaking your fist at something the kids are doing and pontificating about how its the moral downfall of the species you should probably stop to consider whether you might have just gotten old. I'm sure every generation that's ever existed could have typed that post with a few madlibs and it all turned out fine.

joe_the_user 5y ago

The phenomenon I find most baffling is the insistence that we not be concerned, in any way, about that percentage of apparent cases where the person is faking a condition / system / syndrome. I don't know who you're talking to or what exactly you're referring to. If you read the article, phenomena is neither "faking it" nor is it "really Tourettes syndrome". IE, mass sociogenic illness is not "fake" but a result of humans being social organisms. Edit: And no one in the discussion I can see is expressing unconcern.

klik99 5y ago
This is like how people conflate psychosomatic effects as somehow ‘fake’, which they certainly aren’t. Your brain controls a lot and can cause a lot of very real not fake damage.

jollybean 5y ago

I don't think 'faking' is the right word here, as in kids conscientiously trying to mislead others by practising tics, calculating the performance etc.. But from the study it seems that it's not Tourettes either. The Placebo Effect is very real as well, and people weren't faking being sick in the first place, it's just that we're not as 'consciously in charge' as we might think. My armchair hunch that this is real phenom, and that we are much, much more impressionable than we imagine, and that so many of our attitudes, behaviours and ideas are grafted onto us as opposed to being choices we make. As noted when doctor's diagnosed kids as 'not having Tourettes', for many, the symptoms just disappeared - as though a more rational authoritative voice overcame some 'inner constructed belief'. I think this reaches into more than just behaviours, but all those complicated issues of 'identity' as well. It's an amazing thing it would be very fun to study.

monkeydreams 5y ago

There is nothing in the article which suggests that the patients are faking it. It is an unconscious response.