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It is very much a part of public discourse, the military industrial complex has been discussed since the 70s. The problem is that - well, I don't know what the

It is very much a part of public discourse, the military industrial complex has been discussed since the 70s. The problem is that - well, I don't know what the problem is. Maybe it is that everyone is too busy with the meaningless stuff that they show on cable news to be too concerned with things that affect their lives.

cogman10 5y ago
The problem is far too many americans take pride in how big and tough our military is. They equate military spending to might. You propose "Hey, maybe 700 billion dollars on the military is excessive" and you get "But then china/russia/the terrorists/etc can invade us!"
- cheschire 5y ago
  2.1m service members, over 700k civilians employed by the military directly [0]. Then you have the endless stream of military contractors, and you're looking at almost 1 out of every 50 working age people in America benefits directly from the federal military activity. So yeah, of course people are taking pride in a big military since it provides so much of their community income. 0: https://www.governing.com/archive/military-civilian-active-duty-employee-workforce-numbers-by-state.html https://www.governing.com/archive/military-civilian-active-d...
  - Tostino 5y ago
    That budget could still go to supporting their communities if we employed them doing more meaningful work rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure, etc.
    - jimmygrapes 5y ago
      For some perspective, often this money and manpower DOES go into improving local infrastructure. New Orleans levies were substantially more resilient in the last few weeks as a result of the Army Corps of Engineers.
      - foerbert 5y ago
        Often? The Army Corps of Engineers had a budget of less than $8B in 2021. The Army Corps of Engineers has three main missions, one of which is the civil side of things. I'm not sure how it breaks down budget-wise though. But saying money spent on the military often flows into local infrastructure seems laughable.
      - southerntofu 5y ago
        Just because the military establishment is capable to pool together some skills/resources to polish its public image doesn't mean another non-militaristic public service (in whatever definition of the term) couldn't achieve same or better results.
- kasey_junk 5y ago
  It’s more than that. Culturally they US has a big population that is anti-large government social benefits, except in the concept of the military. By joining the military you gain access to federally paid education, health care, social services, housing etc. that has broad political support. If you yanked those funds you’d decimate one of the foundational social safety nets in the States.
  - syops 5y ago
    Nothing would be decimated if we yanked those funds other than our ability to destroy other nations. We could build a much better social safety system that covers far more people. It’s not as if military spending is the only option as far as this goes.
    - kasey_junk 5y ago
      My point was that the military is a social safety net with broad political approval. Other options are much less popular.
      - syops 5y ago
        I now understand and agree with your point.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> the military industrial complex has been discussed since the 70s For...broad definitions of “the 70s” ---quote--- This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society. In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together. ---end quote--- - Dwight D. Eisenhower, President of the United States, Farewell Address, Jan. 17, 1961

cogman10 5y ago

The problem is far too many americans take pride in how big and tough our military is. They equate military spending to might. You propose "Hey, maybe 700 billion dollars on the military is excessive" and you get "But then china/russia/the terrorists/etc can invade us!"

cheschire 5y ago
2.1m service members, over 700k civilians employed by the military directly [0]. Then you have the endless stream of military contractors, and you're looking at almost 1 out of every 50 working age people in America benefits directly from the federal military activity. So yeah, of course people are taking pride in a big military since it provides so much of their community income. 0: https://www.governing.com/archive/military-civilian-active-duty-employee-workforce-numbers-by-state.html https://www.governing.com/archive/military-civilian-active-d...
- Tostino 5y ago
  That budget could still go to supporting their communities if we employed them doing more meaningful work rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure, etc.
  - jimmygrapes 5y ago
    For some perspective, often this money and manpower DOES go into improving local infrastructure. New Orleans levies were substantially more resilient in the last few weeks as a result of the Army Corps of Engineers.
    - foerbert 5y ago
      Often? The Army Corps of Engineers had a budget of less than $8B in 2021. The Army Corps of Engineers has three main missions, one of which is the civil side of things. I'm not sure how it breaks down budget-wise though. But saying money spent on the military often flows into local infrastructure seems laughable.
    - southerntofu 5y ago
      Just because the military establishment is capable to pool together some skills/resources to polish its public image doesn't mean another non-militaristic public service (in whatever definition of the term) couldn't achieve same or better results.
kasey_junk 5y ago
It’s more than that. Culturally they US has a big population that is anti-large government social benefits, except in the concept of the military. By joining the military you gain access to federally paid education, health care, social services, housing etc. that has broad political support. If you yanked those funds you’d decimate one of the foundational social safety nets in the States.
- syops 5y ago
  Nothing would be decimated if we yanked those funds other than our ability to destroy other nations. We could build a much better social safety system that covers far more people. It’s not as if military spending is the only option as far as this goes.
  - kasey_junk 5y ago
    My point was that the military is a social safety net with broad political approval. Other options are much less popular.
    - syops 5y ago
      I now understand and agree with your point.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> the military industrial complex has been discussed since the 70s For...broad definitions of “the 70s” ---quote--- This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society. In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together. ---end quote--- - Dwight D. Eisenhower, President of the United States, Farewell Address, Jan. 17, 1961