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Unfortunately this laissez fair approach is the exact opposite of modern wokeness. It’s their way or it’s attacks and cancellation. If you’re an oppressor class
by zpeti 5y ago
Unfortunately this laissez fair approach is the exact opposite of modern wokeness. It’s their way or it’s attacks and cancellation. If you’re an oppressor class you have almost no way to be forgiven.
The easiest way to show this is just ask some woke stars on their views of libertarianism, which is literally to let everyone be themselves.
- edgyquant 5y agoI think you’re picking the most extreme examples. Also there is a difference between libertarianism and Libertarianism.
- brokencode 5y agoFrom my experience, what libertarians really want is freedom for themselves. They do not actually care how their actions affect others. For example, I’ve yet to meet a libertarian who cares about their carbon emissions, even though that affects everybody else via climate change. Same goes for coronavirus - they don’t care if they spread the disease to others, but they feel like it’s oppression if they have to wear a mask. And the same goes for trampling on the feelings of others, or passively accepting that they’ve been given huge advantages over others in society. They feel like they should be able to do anything short of actually stealing from or hurting others physically, and don’t consider the subtle ways they impact others in society.
- zpeti 5y agoThe ACLU supported the rights of neo nazis to protest in a Jewish neighborhood. While not strictly a libertarian organisation, that is exactly the attitude. And libertarians would support that too. The rights of others to be free just like myself. It’s not selfish in any way. And you should read up about why the aclu did this, they say some very relevant things to today.
- zzzeek 5y agoAssuming I were part of an identity group such as Judaism, this would mean parades of people who want to murder me and my family being welcome outside my door to shout for hours of their intent, with no possibility of relief. sign me up for libertarianism!
- brokencode 5y agoThis doesn’t contradict my point. Yes, libertarians believe everybody should have the same freedoms, and that’s commendable. But like I was saying, they often stop short of caring how their actions affect others, and that is inherently selfish.
- kortilla 5y ago> For example, I’ve yet to meet a libertarian who cares about their carbon emissions Something tells me you’ve yet to a meet a libertarian at all. Being held accountable for your pollution of others’ property is a tenant of libertarianism. > Same goes for coronavirus - they don’t care if they spread the disease to others This sounds quite the opposite of libertarianism. Hurting/killing others isn’t part of the ideology. It sounds like you’re just describing people who don’t understand science, which has nothing to do with libertarianism.
- brokencode 5y agoThere’s a difference between the libertarian fantasy of personal responsibility and the reality that many people do not behave with the best interest of others in mind. If you are unaware of how resistant self-described “libertarians” are to wearing masks, taking vaccines, or reducing their carbon emissions, then you are the one who is ignorant. If you want to say that those people are not true libertarians, fine, but I don’t see how you can pretend that relying on personal responsibility is actually effective.
- kortilla 5y agoI am a self-described libertarian and I wear masks, took the vaccines, and am super careful about my carbon emissions. You’re associating anti-science with libertarians, which is just lazy. Not poisoning and killing others is a pretty core tenant of individual liberty.
- tchaffee 5y agoRand Paul is also a self-described libertarian and I would guess gets far more attention than you do. He was recently banned from YouTube for his videos about masks. And he still will not accept the scientific consensus about climate change. Seriously disturbing stuff. So yeah, it's not exactly just lazy to associate anti-science stuff with libertarians when that association is both real and comes from popular folks who reach a lot of people. But sincerely thanks for being a better person than some of the libertarians that have a bigger audience. I appreciate you being super careful about your carbon emissions. I am curious though - do you simply leave carbon emissions to personal choice and hope that everyone is as respectful of our shared resources as you are?
- cloudfifty 5y ago> libertarianism, which is literally to let everyone be themselves No, it isn't. Its core is to enforce private property rights? That will very likely not translate into "letting everyone be themselves".
- sgregnt 5y agoAFAIK The core is freedom, i.e. a lack of coercion of any kind. If, to be yourself, you need to claim someone else property, then Libertrarians would say it goes against the core principles of liberty, because to execute this claim you exercise coertion. But as long as you do not exert coercion on no one else, you're free to be yourself anyway you like.
- cloudfifty 5y agoThere nothing "freedom" about some sole family owning the only water supply generation after generation or whatever dystopian scenario that libertarianism likely would bring about. In practice it's just a dismantling of democracy in favour of feudalistic power through wealth and property.
- lovich 5y agoNo don’t you see, by virtue of the free market, someone will innovate around the need for water! Then they will hold a monopoly over necessary resources for a few generations until someone innovates around them. You have to realize it’s a good thing to see others go without just to make sure I never have to share my excess wealth /s
- vlunkr 5y agoThat's a nice strawman you've got. I think what you're describing is anarchy.
- cloudfifty 5y agoWhat exactly in essentially removing the state but keeping private property precludes this scenario?
- bequanna 5y agoIndeed. The woke are experts at placing people into endless categories and determining which is “good” or “bad”. Which are the “oppressors” and the “victims”. Listen to their rhetoric, it is pretty much the opposite of live and let live. One of the more ridiculous ideas to come out of this is that “everything is a human construct”. For example, it appears to be a woke idea that mathematics, science is some human (more specifically, white) invention and we should explore “alternative mathematics” or “alternative science”. Perhaps a new (and most importantly less oppressive) scientific method is right around the corner. Like a long forgotten music video that you talked about with all your friends, most of these ideas will end up with no relevance and are completely meaningless. Wokeness is primarily an attention-seeking social phenomenon where influencers can tell you the new hot woke which you can mention later to impress your friends or get a date.
- jackson1442 5y ago> For example, it appears to be a woke idea that mathematics, science is some human (more specifically, white) invention and we should explore “alternative mathematics” or “alternative science”. Do you have a source for this? I’ve never heard of either of these terms, the closest being the “alternative facts” of one of Trump’s press secretaries.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- mathgladiator 5y agohttps://equitablemath.org/ https://equitablemath.org/
- rickspencer3 5y agoThis content looks like it is meant to help people learn how to teach math to blacks and latinos effectively, not an alternative math.
- 5y ago
- tchaffee 5y agoI have had many debates with libertarians over the decades and have yet to meet one who believes in either practice or theory to "literally to let everyone be themselves". Libertarianism fails really hard in situations where you have a lot more overall prosperity if you limit everybody. Libertarianism misses these opportunities because of its blindness to anything but individual freedoms. In economic terms it mostly refuses to deal with the tragedy of the commons. And it likes to pretend negative externalities don't exist, or that the most free markets would make negative externalities magically disappear. Let's get concrete with a real life example. Air pollution will very likely shorten my life by a couple of years (if the science is to be believed). A very moderate libertarian might be willing to discuss preventative regulations, but the vast majority of libertarians' response is "oh well, you can only sue after the damage has been done". Which puts the entire burden on the victim and after preventable damage has already been done. It's too late. It's far cheaper and more effective for me to support a government that stops them from damaging my health and stops them from inteferring with my freedom to breath clean air. The complaint from libertarians is that I'm interfering with their freedoms using the threat of government force. Damn right I am! Because the only thing that has worked over the decades to clean up the air I breath is government regulations interferring with the freedoms of car manufactures, and the freedoms of consumers to buy and operate excessively polluting vehicles. Along with government interference in other polluting industries. Government inference 1, free markets 0. If I could find viable candidates who would intefere and regulate at a much faster pace, they would get my vote. Because it increases a freedom I deeply value. Libertarianism would be a lot more interesting if the libertarians I talk to were actually interested in my freedoms and priorities (which are often collective freedoms to enjoy a shared resource) instead of only being interested in maximizing individual freedoms and their own priorities. As far as asking "woke stars on their views of libertarianism" can you give examples and sources?
- ohbleek 5y agoUnfortunately “let everyone be themselves” is very far from modern libertarianism in practice. “Libertarian” has become a label for people who want to argue in bad faith for conservative positions while claiming to not be conservative or republican. Ask almost anybody that claims to be libertarian if they support the eradication of state/national borders, freedom to carry out an abortion at any stage of pregnancy or any other idea that runs counter to current republican talking points and you’ll quickly see through the facade of their libertarian label.
- majani 5y agoIndeed. The way I see it, wokeness and religion seem to be two sides of the same coin
- TechBro8615 5y agoNot really though. You can just ignore it all and not engage with it. It’s a good strategy btw, highly recommended.