3 ms·

Can you give me an example of a “woke”? Who is a “woke”?

by ggggoz 5y ago

vimy 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Squad_(United_States_Congress) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Squad_(United_States_Congr...
- ggggoz 5y ago
  If those fine people are “wokes”, sign me up.
  - vimy 5y ago
    Those don’t say the racist things from the video but they do believe America (the West) is bad. Capitalism is bad. Meritocracy is bad. Freedom of speech is bad, … Not my worldview.
    - ggggoz 5y ago
      The west, capitalism and meritocracy are not beyond criticism. Those ideals aren’t perfect and fail millions of people. Self critique is important and after all, aren’t they entitled to exercise their fee speech?
      - vimy 5y ago
        They can say whatever they want. But there is a difference between self critique and self hate. Anyway, I don’t think we’re going to come to an understanding so I’m gonna end it here. I hope you have a nice day.
      - PontifexMinimus 5y ago
        > The west, capitalism and meritocracy are not beyond criticism. This is a really good example of motte-and-bailey argumentation. The motte (minimalist position that is uncontroversial and easy to defend) is that the west, capitalism and meritocracy are not beyond criticism. 99.9% of people beleive this. The bailey (much more controversial position, that is hard to defend but stakes out more territory), is something like this: the west, capitalism and meritocracy are evil and must be destroyed.
- FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
  Ugh, c'mon, this is Fox/CNN-tier. "The Squad" is not especially woke (maybe Ilhan Omar?), except in the minds of Republicans who want something to rail at, and Democrats who want to appeal to "the youth". Like, AOC in particular, the figurehead, is really not especially radical. Neither was Bernie (with whom she was roughly aligned), even if he did absorb and make peace with parts of BLM (actually I respected him for that; it shows he's a peacemaker -- I digress). As a general rule, you're not going to find a lot of this woke stuff in conventional political channels. You're going to see it more in universities, or from "public intellectuals", and on Twitter. If we're looking for someone who actually does hold political office and who might fit the bill, Chesa Boudin might be appropriate: https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/08/28/why-san-franciscos-city-government-is-so-dysfunctional https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/08/28/why-san-f...
  - vimy 5y ago
    I’m not American. I don’t think you have to tick all the extreme boxes to be considered woke. I believe their worldview fits with my first quote.
PontifexMinimus 5y ago
I wouldn't use the term "a woke" since wokeness is an ideology not a person. Instead I might say "woke person", "wokie" or "wokist". Robin DiAngelo, Ibram X Kendi and Kimberlé Crenshaw are pretty much canonical examples of wokies / woke people.

Can you give me an example of a “woke”? Who is a “woke”?

by ggggoz 5y ago

Can you give me an example of a “woke”? Who is a “woke”?

vimy 5y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Squad_(United_States_Congress) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Squad_(United_States_Congr...

ggggoz 5y ago
If those fine people are “wokes”, sign me up.
- vimy 5y ago
  Those don’t say the racist things from the video but they do believe America (the West) is bad. Capitalism is bad. Meritocracy is bad. Freedom of speech is bad, … Not my worldview.
  - ggggoz 5y ago
    The west, capitalism and meritocracy are not beyond criticism. Those ideals aren’t perfect and fail millions of people. Self critique is important and after all, aren’t they entitled to exercise their fee speech?
    - vimy 5y ago
      They can say whatever they want. But there is a difference between self critique and self hate. Anyway, I don’t think we’re going to come to an understanding so I’m gonna end it here. I hope you have a nice day.
    - PontifexMinimus 5y ago
      > The west, capitalism and meritocracy are not beyond criticism. This is a really good example of motte-and-bailey argumentation. The motte (minimalist position that is uncontroversial and easy to defend) is that the west, capitalism and meritocracy are not beyond criticism. 99.9% of people beleive this. The bailey (much more controversial position, that is hard to defend but stakes out more territory), is something like this: the west, capitalism and meritocracy are evil and must be destroyed.
FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
Ugh, c'mon, this is Fox/CNN-tier. "The Squad" is not especially woke (maybe Ilhan Omar?), except in the minds of Republicans who want something to rail at, and Democrats who want to appeal to "the youth". Like, AOC in particular, the figurehead, is really not especially radical. Neither was Bernie (with whom she was roughly aligned), even if he did absorb and make peace with parts of BLM (actually I respected him for that; it shows he's a peacemaker -- I digress). As a general rule, you're not going to find a lot of this woke stuff in conventional political channels. You're going to see it more in universities, or from "public intellectuals", and on Twitter. If we're looking for someone who actually does hold political office and who might fit the bill, Chesa Boudin might be appropriate: https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/08/28/why-san-franciscos-city-government-is-so-dysfunctional https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/08/28/why-san-f...
- vimy 5y ago
  I’m not American. I don’t think you have to tick all the extreme boxes to be considered woke. I believe their worldview fits with my first quote.

PontifexMinimus 5y ago

I wouldn't use the term "a woke" since wokeness is an ideology not a person. Instead I might say "woke person", "wokie" or "wokist". Robin DiAngelo, Ibram X Kendi and Kimberlé Crenshaw are pretty much canonical examples of wokies / woke people.