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It’s in the article. > What links these developments is a loose constellation of ideas that is changing the way that mostly white, educated, left-leaning Ameri
by vimy 5y ago
It’s in the article.
> What links these developments is a loose constellation of ideas that is changing the way that mostly white, educated, left-leaning Americans view the world. This credo still lacks a definitive name: it is variously known as left-liberal identity politics, social-justice activism or, simply, wokeness. But it has a clear common thread: a belief that any disparities between racial groups are evidence of structural racism; that the norms of free speech, individualism and universalism which pretend to be progressive are really camouflage for this discrimination; and that injustice will persist until systems of language and privilege are dismantled. These notions were incubated for years in the humanities departments of universities (elite ones in particular), without serious challenge.
We can add to this list: meritocracy, capitalism. Both are considered racist and oppressive.
Tl;dr Woke means being opposed to Western ideals while pretending to uphold those same Western ideals.
- ggggoz 5y agoDo you honestly believe this?
- vimy 5y agoYes, 100 %. I listen to what wokes say and do. https://youtu.be/Ev373c7wSRg https://youtu.be/Ev373c7wSRg Nothing in this video is an exaggeration. They literary say these things.
- ggggoz 5y agoCan you give me an example of a “woke”? Who is a “woke”?
- vimy 5y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Squad_(United_States_Congress) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Squad_(United_States_Congr...
- ggggoz 5y agoIf those fine people are “wokes”, sign me up.
- vimy 5y agoThose don’t say the racist things from the video but they do believe America (the West) is bad. Capitalism is bad. Meritocracy is bad. Freedom of speech is bad, … Not my worldview.
- ggggoz 5y agoThe west, capitalism and meritocracy are not beyond criticism. Those ideals aren’t perfect and fail millions of people. Self critique is important and after all, aren’t they entitled to exercise their fee speech?
- vimy 5y agoThey can say whatever they want. But there is a difference between self critique and self hate. Anyway, I don’t think we’re going to come to an understanding so I’m gonna end it here. I hope you have a nice day.
- PontifexMinimus 5y ago> The west, capitalism and meritocracy are not beyond criticism. This is a really good example of motte-and-bailey argumentation. The motte (minimalist position that is uncontroversial and easy to defend) is that the west, capitalism and meritocracy are not beyond criticism. 99.9% of people beleive this. The bailey (much more controversial position, that is hard to defend but stakes out more territory), is something like this: the west, capitalism and meritocracy are evil and must be destroyed.
- FooBarBizBazz 5y agoUgh, c'mon, this is Fox/CNN-tier. "The Squad" is not especially woke (maybe Ilhan Omar?), except in the minds of Republicans who want something to rail at, and Democrats who want to appeal to "the youth". Like, AOC in particular, the figurehead, is really not especially radical. Neither was Bernie (with whom she was roughly aligned), even if he did absorb and make peace with parts of BLM (actually I respected him for that; it shows he's a peacemaker -- I digress). As a general rule, you're not going to find a lot of this woke stuff in conventional political channels. You're going to see it more in universities, or from "public intellectuals", and on Twitter. If we're looking for someone who actually does hold political office and who might fit the bill, Chesa Boudin might be appropriate: https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/08/28/why-san-franciscos-city-government-is-so-dysfunctional https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/08/28/why-san-f...
- PontifexMinimus 5y agoI wouldn't use the term "a woke" since wokeness is an ideology not a person. Instead I might say "woke person", "wokie" or "wokist". Robin DiAngelo, Ibram X Kendi and Kimberlé Crenshaw are pretty much canonical examples of wokies / woke people.
- ctvo 5y agoYou’ve contributed nothing to this discussion except telling people their understanding of the term “woke” is incorrect. Perhaps define what that term is, and how this movement works since you’re implying in your posts you know and others do not.
- tehwebguy 5y ago- a belief that any disparities between racial groups are evidence of structural racism This is maybe too broad but mostly true. I mean, has the author read like any American history? - that the norms of free speech, individualism and universalism which pretend to be progressive are really camouflage for this discrimination I’d say this is largely not relevant but the thing people see as this is largely just individuals no longer “playing along” with other folks using terms & language that demean them. - and that injustice will persist until systems of language and privilege are dismantled Language? No. Privilege? Probably! It’s easy to point out political dynasty privilege or obvious hollywood nepotism but it’s not the only type of privilege that gives some of us a leg up and others of us a massive hill to climb just to get to zero.
- luckylion 5y ago> I mean, has the author read like any American history? They believe that it's the same outside America as well, so American history doesn't matter. E.g. Turks in Germany (who immigrated in the 60ies) don't achieve as much as native Germans after three generations => structural racism. Asian immigrants do quickly achieve as much and more than native Germans => more structural racism, I guess.
- vidarh 5y agoRegarding the treatment of Turkish immigrants in Germany, I'd recommend you read "Ganz Unten" (Gunther Wallraff, 1985) which sent shockwaves through Germany when it was published for revealing the racism people liked to pretend wasn't an issue at the time, and leading to many thousands of criminal investigations over the treatment of immigrant labour. While that was a long time ago, it by no means it fixed the issues.
- mattmanser 5y agoloose constellation of ideas Yeah, right in the article it clearly says there's no definition, right in the first sentence you quoted.
- helge9210 5y ago> systems of language ... are dismantled Newspeak to the rescue.