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> You either do not understand or trying to avoid the question I understand perfectly. Google and Microsoft have been scanning everything in your account for

> You either do not understand or trying to avoid the question I understand perfectly. Google and Microsoft have been scanning everything in your account for the past decade and turning customers over to the police. Apple is set to start scanning iCloud Photos and only iCloud Photos in the future. They waited until they found a way to preserve your privacy until they were reasonably certain there was a real issue with what you were uploading to your online account and not just a false positive. With their system, Apple cannot see the scan results until your device informs them that you have crossed the threshold of 30 images flagged as kiddie porn and hands over the encryption key for the scan results. They can't turn over scan result data to the feds before that, because they can't read it. Google and Microsoft, on the other hand, would have to hand over an every account with a single false positive to anyone who issues a dragnet warrant since they carry out their scans on the server.

simion314 5y ago
Apple have the key to read your photos, they probably are even encrypted since you can view them from browsers, so this is fake news. They could have scanned the images on the server at the moment you uploaded them, they could have reported CSAM to the authorities and catch the bad guys. I want the proof that Apple is unable to scan on the server, that they don't have the keys and the only solution is on device scanning.
- GeekyBear 5y ago
  Of course Apple can read data you have uploaded to iCloud. Every cloud service can read the data you upload to it. How do you think Google and Microsoft are scanning everything in your account? What Apple cannot do is see the results of a scan that was not conducted on it's servers, since those results are encrypted with a key Apple doesn't have until the threshold of 30 images matching known kiddie porn is reached.
  - simion314 5y ago
    This logic makes no sense 1 Apple can read data you have uploaded to iCloud. 2 What Apple cannot do is see the results of a scan What makes 2 impossible? if 1 is true then Apple can generate the scan and check the hashes on the server so 2 is possible. What is the advantage? Apple will also have to push the scanning on device to the laptops too and what do you do with devices that don't get updated? Instead of having a simple solution that works for all images in iCloud you get a privacy-invasive solution that only works for some hardware that runs latest stuff. Seems to me that this implementation is not solving the problem of "Prevent CSAM to be uploaded to iCloud" but solves soem other problem and the CSAM is a cover.
    - GeekyBear 5y ago
      The scan is not conducted on Apple's servers, so they don't have access to the scan results the way Google and Microsoft do when they conduct the same scan on their server. Apple designed the system that way because it is more private to keep potentially damaging information from being readable on their server, where it can be misused by anyone who can issue a warrant. They can't decrypt the scan result until the device tells them that 30 images have matched kiddie porn, whereupon the device hands over the decryption key. The theory is that you are unlikely to have 30 false positives, but the next step is to have a human make sure that's not what happened. Since Google refuses to hire expensive human beings when a poorly performing algorithm is cheaper, I have no doubt Google is turning in people for as little as a single false positive.
      - simion314 5y ago
        >They can't see the scan result until the device tells them that 30 images have matched kiddie porn Isn't this FALSE? the devices hashes the images but it does not have the database, so the hashes are sent to the server, and Apple servers compares your hashes with the secret database, so Apple knows how many matches you have. Your argument would make sense ONLY IF your images would be encrypted and Apple had no way to decrypt them so the only way to compute the has is with the creepy on device code.
        5y ago
bbarnett 5y ago
I understand perfectly. If you did, you would stop mentioning on-cloud as part of your response.

simion314 5y ago

Apple have the key to read your photos, they probably are even encrypted since you can view them from browsers, so this is fake news. They could have scanned the images on the server at the moment you uploaded them, they could have reported CSAM to the authorities and catch the bad guys. I want the proof that Apple is unable to scan on the server, that they don't have the keys and the only solution is on device scanning.

GeekyBear 5y ago
Of course Apple can read data you have uploaded to iCloud. Every cloud service can read the data you upload to it. How do you think Google and Microsoft are scanning everything in your account? What Apple cannot do is see the results of a scan that was not conducted on it's servers, since those results are encrypted with a key Apple doesn't have until the threshold of 30 images matching known kiddie porn is reached.
- simion314 5y ago
  This logic makes no sense 1 Apple can read data you have uploaded to iCloud. 2 What Apple cannot do is see the results of a scan What makes 2 impossible? if 1 is true then Apple can generate the scan and check the hashes on the server so 2 is possible. What is the advantage? Apple will also have to push the scanning on device to the laptops too and what do you do with devices that don't get updated? Instead of having a simple solution that works for all images in iCloud you get a privacy-invasive solution that only works for some hardware that runs latest stuff. Seems to me that this implementation is not solving the problem of "Prevent CSAM to be uploaded to iCloud" but solves soem other problem and the CSAM is a cover.
  - GeekyBear 5y ago
    The scan is not conducted on Apple's servers, so they don't have access to the scan results the way Google and Microsoft do when they conduct the same scan on their server. Apple designed the system that way because it is more private to keep potentially damaging information from being readable on their server, where it can be misused by anyone who can issue a warrant. They can't decrypt the scan result until the device tells them that 30 images have matched kiddie porn, whereupon the device hands over the decryption key. The theory is that you are unlikely to have 30 false positives, but the next step is to have a human make sure that's not what happened. Since Google refuses to hire expensive human beings when a poorly performing algorithm is cheaper, I have no doubt Google is turning in people for as little as a single false positive.
    - simion314 5y ago
      >They can't see the scan result until the device tells them that 30 images have matched kiddie porn Isn't this FALSE? the devices hashes the images but it does not have the database, so the hashes are sent to the server, and Apple servers compares your hashes with the secret database, so Apple knows how many matches you have. Your argument would make sense ONLY IF your images would be encrypted and Apple had no way to decrypt them so the only way to compute the has is with the creepy on device code.
      - 5y ago

bbarnett 5y ago

I understand perfectly. If you did, you would stop mentioning on-cloud as part of your response.