6 ms·

Doctors are already refusing patients that refuse the COVID vaccine. My mother, who works at hospital, was told due to her age that if there was a choice betwe

Doctors are already refusing patients that refuse the COVID vaccine. My mother, who works at hospital, was told due to her age that if there was a choice between her and a younger patient, the younger patient would get the bed/oxygen. She was told this long before the COVID vaccine was released in 2020. The CDC and more are already reaching out urging people not to take a horse deworming medication. They do not listen. They believe whatever is shared by their friends on social media and right wing media over medical professionals. At what point do you prioritize treatment for those who do nothing of their own fault over those who deliberately ignore medical advice and harm themselves with a horse medication? My opinion: the ER should have started turning them away a long before they had to refuse treatment to others. Edit: Missed the part where the above top parent wrote which I do not agree with: 'Their genes need to be taken out of the gene pool.'

0xy 5y ago
Sorry, but calling it "horse deworming medication" is inflamatory, not to mention incorrect. [1] Ivermectin has been approved by the FDA for human usage. [1] Claiming ivermectin is a drug for animals exclusively is a falsehood. Is ivermectin known to cure or heal COVID? Absolutely unproven. But your misrepresentations are just as bad as anyone claiming it's a COVID miracle cure. Stop fighting misinformation with misinformation, you're not better than them. You're lying. [1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ivermectin-covid-19-alberta-pandemic-1.6159985 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ivermectin-covid-19-a...
- staticassertion 5y ago
  > But your misrepresentations are just as bad as anyone claiming it's a COVID miracle cure. Nah. It's a harmless mistake at worst compared to a very harmful and invalid claim.
- csdreamer7 5y ago
  > Sorry, but calling it "horse deworming medication" is inflamatory, not to mention incorrect. I did not claim it was exclusively for horses. What I have been reading (and perhaps can be clarified) is that they have been buying doses specifically meant for horses and then they wind up at the ER. Also, if you are going to accuse someone of lying and cite the FDA (but only link to the Canadian CDC). Please read carefully. From the FDA: 'Ivermectin Products for Animals Are Different from Ivermectin Products for People For one thing, animal drugs are often highly concentrated because they are used for large animals like horses and cows, which weigh a lot more than we do—a ton or more. Such high doses can be highly toxic in humans. Moreover, the FDA reviews drugs not just for safety and effectiveness of the active ingredients, but also for the inactive ingredients. Many inactive ingredients found in products for animals aren’t evaluated for use in people. Or they are included in much greater quantity than those used in people. In some cases, we don’t know how those inactive ingredients will affect how ivermectin is absorbed in the human body.' https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19 https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-shoul...
  - 0xy 5y ago
    >I did not claim it was exclusively for horses Nope, you only strongly implied it. Ivermectin is not a livestock drug. Ivermectin has been used for 50 years in humans and is approved for that purpose. Ivermectin is not a "livestock drug" anymore than steroids are a "chicken drug". Doesn't mean it's safe at animal doses, but it does mean you're being inflamatory, misleading and fueling misinformation on this topic (to the detriment of people who actually need the drug). Here's the phrase you used: "horse deworming medication". You also falsely implied the CDC warned people not to take it in any circumstance, which seems to hint at your lack of knowledge on ivermectin. Consider not jumping on misinformation bandwagons, because you're making this all worse.
    - belltaco 5y ago
      Wrong. It's entirely correct to say "The CDC and more are already reaching out urging people not to take a horse deworming medication". People are picking up horse deworming medication off the shelf, and taking it. That's exactly what's the driving the overdoses. Ivermectin prescriptions are harder to overdose on because they're meant for human consumption and the doctor and pharmacist list the safe dosage. So yes, human ivermectin is safer(at normal deworming dosage), even if not proven to be effective for Covid. Horse deworming medication not meant for human consumption is dangerous for humans, there is a way higher chance of overdose.
      - 0xy 5y ago
        I haven't seen you or anyone cite a source that shows that particular product is the primary source of ivermectin overdoses. In my area, people are obtaining ivermectin pills which are marketed and intended for humans. So, again, calling it "horse deworming medication" is inflamatory and incorrect. In addition, it's not inherently more dangerous given the cases. You can dose either product incorrectly, or correctly. Also, by using such narrow terminology aren't you implying it's okay to take ivermectin pills intended for humans for a purpose it has not been approved for? Your language is designed to be incendiary, and its effects are horrible. Human people need ivermectin. It is an incredibly useful drug for humans. Stop demonising it with a broad stroke based on mass media campaigns (the same mass media that spread the lie that masks were ineffective in early 2020).
cannaceo 5y ago
There’s a huge distance between triage when resources are limited and refusing to treat patients. Many health issues are self-inflicted through poor lifestyle habits despite patients knowing better.
- csdreamer7 5y ago
  Agreed. Missed that part from the top parent comment.
- France_is_bacon 5y ago
  That is 100% true. However, this is a unique situation. This is an acute situation, and not because of long-term things, or one-off problems. Wingsuiting is a poor life choice, given the high death rate of people who do it, but to compare wingsuit deaths of 5 deaths per year to the Covid virus that has killed almost a million people in the USA since it started - that is a weird comparison that you gave. There are already a ton of hospitals who refuse to treat people who refuse to get the Covid vaccine, and rightly so. And, as far as treating them, fine, but if someone comes into the hospital other then non-vacccine, non-mask, taking ivermectin - then they immediately get bumped down the list by ANYONE else who needs treatment. Let them lie on the floor against the walls in the hall until doctors treat everyone else and have time for them again. Because these people are the same exact people that we see all the videos about - screaming and yelling in stores, airplanes, Trump rallies, the insurrection at the Capitol, saying how masks don't work or are bad. Then the bitch and whine when they get it and expect treatment, after all their toxic behavior. I have a folder where I track all the a-holes that were radio hosts who said covid is not real, and then they get it and change their tune and say it is and that they should have taken the vaccine, and now recommend everyone to take it. Sorry man, day late and a dollar short - you don't get a bed, f you. That's my opinion.
  - votepaunchy 5y ago
    > There are already a ton of hospitals who refuse to treat people who refuse to get the Covid vaccine, and rightly so. Citation needed. Many hospitals are delaying some elective surgeries, but is even one hospital refusing all treatment to anyone who is unvaccinated?
OrvalWintermute 5y ago
> The CDC and more are already reaching out urging people not to take a horse deworming medication When I read this, I was a little bit stunned. Ivermectin has a large number of human indications, and in certain parts of Africa, Asia & Latin America is a vital drug for humans, more than it is anywhere else. River Blindness is a horrible disease, as are many other parasitic infections. [1] [2] [3] [4] Because Ivermectin is broadly applicable against many parasites, mites, and also has other qualities such as being an anti-viral, it is one of those important drugs for the health of endangered populations. For you to politicize this issue, and to repeat political attacks is frankly unworthy of the HN community. While I think we all know that prescription drugs should be the domain of trained medical professionals having a fundamental expertise in diagnosis (MDs/DOs primarily, and PAs and NPs) and that veterinary medications best left to the vets for those animals in need. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043740/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043740/ [2] https://www.merck.com/stories/mectizan/ https://www.merck.com/stories/mectizan/ [3] https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2014/07/03/forty-years-later-the-extraordinary-river-blindness-partnership-sets-its-sights-on-new-goals https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2014/07/03/forty-y... [4] https://www.nytimes.com/1982/08/01/us/new-drug-may-curb-tropic-river-blindness.html https://www.nytimes.com/1982/08/01/us/new-drug-may-curb-trop...
France_is_bacon 5y ago
>Missed the part where the above top parent wrote which I do not agree with: 'Their genes need to be taken out of the gene pool.' That was me. If they are not treated, their genes get taken out of the gene pool anyways, no matter what I say or don't say. That's how natural selection works. I was just being honest about how it works.
BrandoElFollito 5y ago
What does the first paragraph of your comment has to do with the others? Yes, doctors should refuse to treat someone who does not want to be vaccinated. If they do not make the effort for the good of everyone, they suffer the consequences.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  > If they do not make the effort for the good of everyone, they suffer the consequences. That's one of the most dystopian-sounding sentences I've ever read.
  - BrandoElFollito 5y ago
    Not sure what is dystopian there. My wife is dependent on not meeting these unvaccinated idiots because otherwise she will likely be in serious trouble (~die). My child is also seriously sick so he is in danger too. It costs them nothing to protect themselves and others. If they do not want to do that, then fuck off - if they are sick with COVID or because of something COVID-related then they just die in a corner while waiting for a bed used by someone else. No whining, no drama. Just bearing the consequences of a choice.

0xy 5y ago

Sorry, but calling it "horse deworming medication" is inflamatory, not to mention incorrect. [1] Ivermectin has been approved by the FDA for human usage. [1] Claiming ivermectin is a drug for animals exclusively is a falsehood. Is ivermectin known to cure or heal COVID? Absolutely unproven. But your misrepresentations are just as bad as anyone claiming it's a COVID miracle cure. Stop fighting misinformation with misinformation, you're not better than them. You're lying. [1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ivermectin-covid-19-alberta-pandemic-1.6159985 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ivermectin-covid-19-a...

staticassertion 5y ago
> But your misrepresentations are just as bad as anyone claiming it's a COVID miracle cure. Nah. It's a harmless mistake at worst compared to a very harmful and invalid claim.
csdreamer7 5y ago
> Sorry, but calling it "horse deworming medication" is inflamatory, not to mention incorrect. I did not claim it was exclusively for horses. What I have been reading (and perhaps can be clarified) is that they have been buying doses specifically meant for horses and then they wind up at the ER. Also, if you are going to accuse someone of lying and cite the FDA (but only link to the Canadian CDC). Please read carefully. From the FDA: 'Ivermectin Products for Animals Are Different from Ivermectin Products for People For one thing, animal drugs are often highly concentrated because they are used for large animals like horses and cows, which weigh a lot more than we do—a ton or more. Such high doses can be highly toxic in humans. Moreover, the FDA reviews drugs not just for safety and effectiveness of the active ingredients, but also for the inactive ingredients. Many inactive ingredients found in products for animals aren’t evaluated for use in people. Or they are included in much greater quantity than those used in people. In some cases, we don’t know how those inactive ingredients will affect how ivermectin is absorbed in the human body.' https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19 https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-shoul...
- 0xy 5y ago
  >I did not claim it was exclusively for horses Nope, you only strongly implied it. Ivermectin is not a livestock drug. Ivermectin has been used for 50 years in humans and is approved for that purpose. Ivermectin is not a "livestock drug" anymore than steroids are a "chicken drug". Doesn't mean it's safe at animal doses, but it does mean you're being inflamatory, misleading and fueling misinformation on this topic (to the detriment of people who actually need the drug). Here's the phrase you used: "horse deworming medication". You also falsely implied the CDC warned people not to take it in any circumstance, which seems to hint at your lack of knowledge on ivermectin. Consider not jumping on misinformation bandwagons, because you're making this all worse.
  - belltaco 5y ago
    Wrong. It's entirely correct to say "The CDC and more are already reaching out urging people not to take a horse deworming medication". People are picking up horse deworming medication off the shelf, and taking it. That's exactly what's the driving the overdoses. Ivermectin prescriptions are harder to overdose on because they're meant for human consumption and the doctor and pharmacist list the safe dosage. So yes, human ivermectin is safer(at normal deworming dosage), even if not proven to be effective for Covid. Horse deworming medication not meant for human consumption is dangerous for humans, there is a way higher chance of overdose.
    - 0xy 5y ago
      I haven't seen you or anyone cite a source that shows that particular product is the primary source of ivermectin overdoses. In my area, people are obtaining ivermectin pills which are marketed and intended for humans. So, again, calling it "horse deworming medication" is inflamatory and incorrect. In addition, it's not inherently more dangerous given the cases. You can dose either product incorrectly, or correctly. Also, by using such narrow terminology aren't you implying it's okay to take ivermectin pills intended for humans for a purpose it has not been approved for? Your language is designed to be incendiary, and its effects are horrible. Human people need ivermectin. It is an incredibly useful drug for humans. Stop demonising it with a broad stroke based on mass media campaigns (the same mass media that spread the lie that masks were ineffective in early 2020).

cannaceo 5y ago

There’s a huge distance between triage when resources are limited and refusing to treat patients. Many health issues are self-inflicted through poor lifestyle habits despite patients knowing better.

csdreamer7 5y ago
Agreed. Missed that part from the top parent comment.
France_is_bacon 5y ago
That is 100% true. However, this is a unique situation. This is an acute situation, and not because of long-term things, or one-off problems. Wingsuiting is a poor life choice, given the high death rate of people who do it, but to compare wingsuit deaths of 5 deaths per year to the Covid virus that has killed almost a million people in the USA since it started - that is a weird comparison that you gave. There are already a ton of hospitals who refuse to treat people who refuse to get the Covid vaccine, and rightly so. And, as far as treating them, fine, but if someone comes into the hospital other then non-vacccine, non-mask, taking ivermectin - then they immediately get bumped down the list by ANYONE else who needs treatment. Let them lie on the floor against the walls in the hall until doctors treat everyone else and have time for them again. Because these people are the same exact people that we see all the videos about - screaming and yelling in stores, airplanes, Trump rallies, the insurrection at the Capitol, saying how masks don't work or are bad. Then the bitch and whine when they get it and expect treatment, after all their toxic behavior. I have a folder where I track all the a-holes that were radio hosts who said covid is not real, and then they get it and change their tune and say it is and that they should have taken the vaccine, and now recommend everyone to take it. Sorry man, day late and a dollar short - you don't get a bed, f you. That's my opinion.
- votepaunchy 5y ago
  > There are already a ton of hospitals who refuse to treat people who refuse to get the Covid vaccine, and rightly so. Citation needed. Many hospitals are delaying some elective surgeries, but is even one hospital refusing all treatment to anyone who is unvaccinated?

OrvalWintermute 5y ago

> The CDC and more are already reaching out urging people not to take a horse deworming medication When I read this, I was a little bit stunned. Ivermectin has a large number of human indications, and in certain parts of Africa, Asia & Latin America is a vital drug for humans, more than it is anywhere else. River Blindness is a horrible disease, as are many other parasitic infections. [1] [2] [3] [4] Because Ivermectin is broadly applicable against many parasites, mites, and also has other qualities such as being an anti-viral, it is one of those important drugs for the health of endangered populations. For you to politicize this issue, and to repeat political attacks is frankly unworthy of the HN community. While I think we all know that prescription drugs should be the domain of trained medical professionals having a fundamental expertise in diagnosis (MDs/DOs primarily, and PAs and NPs) and that veterinary medications best left to the vets for those animals in need. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043740/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043740/ [2] https://www.merck.com/stories/mectizan/ https://www.merck.com/stories/mectizan/ [3] https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2014/07/03/forty-years-later-the-extraordinary-river-blindness-partnership-sets-its-sights-on-new-goals https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2014/07/03/forty-y... [4] https://www.nytimes.com/1982/08/01/us/new-drug-may-curb-tropic-river-blindness.html https://www.nytimes.com/1982/08/01/us/new-drug-may-curb-trop...

France_is_bacon 5y ago

>Missed the part where the above top parent wrote which I do not agree with: 'Their genes need to be taken out of the gene pool.' That was me. If they are not treated, their genes get taken out of the gene pool anyways, no matter what I say or don't say. That's how natural selection works. I was just being honest about how it works.

BrandoElFollito 5y ago

What does the first paragraph of your comment has to do with the others? Yes, doctors should refuse to treat someone who does not want to be vaccinated. If they do not make the effort for the good of everyone, they suffer the consequences.

josephcsible 5y ago
> If they do not make the effort for the good of everyone, they suffer the consequences. That's one of the most dystopian-sounding sentences I've ever read.
- BrandoElFollito 5y ago
  Not sure what is dystopian there. My wife is dependent on not meeting these unvaccinated idiots because otherwise she will likely be in serious trouble (~die). My child is also seriously sick so he is in danger too. It costs them nothing to protect themselves and others. If they do not want to do that, then fuck off - if they are sick with COVID or because of something COVID-related then they just die in a corner while waiting for a bed used by someone else. No whining, no drama. Just bearing the consequences of a choice.