6 ms·

ERs backed up with ivermectin overdosers while gunshot victims wait: Oklahoma DR

33 points by belltaco 5y ago

refurb 5y ago
How much do you want to bet this isn’t actually happening? I’m going to add this to the list of events that the media have reported that turned out to be not true at all like.
- himinlomax 5y ago
  The people who are telling you not to use ivermectin are not secretly using ivermectin. The people who tell you to get vaccinated have all been vaccinated. What do you believe is the angle here? Why would they lie to you regarding this?
- France_is_bacon 5y ago
  So...everything that you disagree with politically, is not true, right? No compromise, no trying to figure out the actual truth. Just reject everything that doesn't fit into your masters' stories that they tell you.
  - refurb 5y ago
    Not at all, just skeptical. Take the Jan 6th riots at the Capitol. Heard much about those bombs planted at Democrat and Republican HQs? What about the cop who was murdered with a fire extinguisher? Oh yeah, that was made up. Apparently it was an organized rebellion led by Trump, but oh yeah, the FBI just concluded it wasn’t. You’d be served well to assume every news report is bullshit until proven otherwise. Whatever side you’re on.
    - France_is_bacon 5y ago
      I see your point now. That whole "insurrection" thing at the Capitol all happened at a stage in Hollywood with a greenscreen background, right? Either that or Elon Musk invented a Star Trek-like HoloDeck which would make it even more lifelike. The fires in California are not fires, the flooding in New York is not flooding. There was no tropical storm in Louisiana. All bullshit. All made up by Hollywood. And the Earth was created 6,000 years ago, and all 10 million scientists in the world who say it is 4.5 billion years old - all of them - are in the biggest conspiracy theory ever. Bigger than Bigfoot even. Oh, and the world is flat. I know all the Space launches and so called "pictures of a round earth" are all doctored, all by the libtards and Hollywood. Gotcha.
- Uehreka 5y ago
  (Raises hand) Bookie I’ll take the other side thanks!
  - unraveller 5y ago
    pay up! but since you didn't stake anything it means a humiliation of the winner's choosing is in order. I hope he chooses something to do with eating premium horse feed, it's very tasty, like muesli.
  - refurb 5y ago
    Do you want to use Venmo or the Cash App?
- creato 5y ago
  Here is the original source: https://kfor.com/news/local/patients-overdosing-on-ivermectin-backing-up-rural-oklahoma-hospitals-ambulances/ https://kfor.com/news/local/patients-overdosing-on-ivermecti...
- smt88 5y ago
  "The media" is directly quoting an ER doctor and other people using their real names. Why wouldn't this happen? Thousands of hospitals are warning that they're filling up. My friend who works in a hospital says there are patients in hallways. Nothing about this situation is unpredictable or unlikely. People have been expecting it for many months.
  - akira2501 5y ago
    We're currently only seeing about 1/3 the number of cases as our last peak around New Years, and only about 1/10th the deaths. And while it should be expected, the rhetoric does not seem to match the raw numbers.
  - refurb 5y ago
    Because Covid is so politicized now that people will exaggerate situations in order to “educate” the public. Combine that with the desperate news organizations for clicks and you get stories like this.
  - nradov 5y ago
    This didn't happen. NHS Sequoyah has issued a statement and it turns out Dr. McElyea was lying. It's sad that Rolling Stone has such low journalistic standards and doesn't do fact checking.
- 0xdeadb00f 5y ago
  Didn't similar shit happen after Trump recommended that one chemical (I don't remember what it was called )? This isnt unprecedented or anything.
  - kevingadd 5y ago
    Yeah, unfortunately: https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/03/24/820512107/man-dies-woman-hospitalized-after-taking-form-of-chloroquine-to-prevent-covid-19 https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/0...
- belltaco 5y ago
  Rural Oklahoma is full of Republicans, someone working for the hospital could easily expose this if it were false and Fox News would be all over it. https://www.politico.com/2020-election/results/oklahoma/ https://www.politico.com/2020-election/results/oklahoma/ Hover over the south eastern counties that the article is referring to, you get like 85% votes for Trump, some of the highest margins in the nation. Which also explains the story, because they're the ones most likely to take and overdose ivermectin.
  - nradov 5y ago
    The hospital itself exposed this as a false story. https://dailycaller.com/2021/09/05/hospital-blows-holes-rolling-stone-story/ https://dailycaller.com/2021/09/05/hospital-blows-holes-roll...
  - nanis 5y ago
    https://twitter.com/DrewHolden360/status/1434591443855753220 https://twitter.com/DrewHolden360/status/1434591443855753220
  - refurb 5y ago
    See why they report these fake stories? Because they perfectly fit the narrative in your head.
- pdmccormick 5y ago
  For the record, as of Sept 5 midnight EST, the following note is posted at https://nhssequoyah.com/ https://nhssequoyah.com/ : Message from the administration of Northeastern Health System - Sequoyah: Although Dr. Jason McElyea is not an employee of NHS Sequoyah, he is affiliated with a medical staffing group that provides coverage for our emergency room. With that said, Dr. McElyea has not worked at our Sallisaw location in over 2 months. NHS Sequoyah has not treated any patients due to complications related to taking ivermectin. This includes not treating any patients for ivermectin overdose. All patients who have visited our emergency room have received medical attention as appropriate. Our hospital has not had to turn away any patients seeking emergency care. We want to reassure our community that our staff is working hard to provide quality healthcare to all patients. We appreciate the opportunity to clarify this issue and as always, we value our community’s support.
- the_ol_debunk 5y ago
  Good call. https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/rolling-stone-horse-dewormer-hit-piece-debunked-after-hospital-says-no-ivermectin https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/rolling-stone-horse-dewor... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28421638 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28421638
  - refurb 5y ago
    Hahaha. Yup. The “doctor” doesn’t even work at the hospital. https://nhssequoyah.com/ https://nhssequoyah.com/ Like I said in later replies, the media feeds off this kind of clickbait outrage. If you come across something really outrageous it’s mostly like untrue or at least exaggerated. The sad part is how widely shit like this is reported. Nobody bothered to even vaguely attempt to valid the story? Even check if the “doctor” works there? Even check if the county the hospital in has a lot of shootings. I mean, even just call the hospital to get a comment. Most news is total garbage.
France_is_bacon 5y ago
I would like to know "why" the ERs are letting gunshot victims, or other injured people, wait. If I was in charge of the ER, I would bump people out/put them lower on the priority list. The people who take ivermectin are idiots listening to idiots. Their genes need to be taken out of the gene pool. Maybe it is supposed to be first come, first serve, but there also is such a thing called triage. And while it means that the most injured person gets treated first, I think that does not apply in this case. It's like at a triage site, the dead get a black tag, so subsequent first responders know they are a waste of time to treat a dead person, and they can tell just by looking at the tag. In the same way, we should give those taking ivermectin a black tag, because their brain is dead.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  You think that if someone uses the wrong medical treatment, doctors should treat them as if they're already dead and never try to help them at all?
  - threatofrain 5y ago
    deleted
    - thaumasiotes 5y ago
      > Ivermectin is not human medicine Not only is Ivermectin a human medicine, it's one of the more globally important ones.
      - wyldfire 5y ago
        Unfortunately ivermectin proponents highly intersect with 'crazy kooks'. But I'm hoping a non-crazy proponent can help elucidate the rationale. For example: are there other coronaviruses or any viruses which are treated (in people or animals) with ivermectin? If so, which? If not, why would the original proponent(s) attempt this drug over any other one? EDIT: maybe I was too quick to dismiss it: follow the responses on the thread.
__m 5y ago
They claim to not be sheep, but take livestock medicine
baron816 5y ago
So people don't want to take the vaccine because it was supposedly not tested thoroughly on humans, but they're willing to take livestock dewormer which is well known to be toxic at these doses?
- jmcgough 5y ago
  For a while I made snarky comments about how dumb people are doing doing this. But now I just think it's sad. I saw this tweet by someone in the UK the other day, stating that we wouldn't be having this situation if we had free, accessible healthcare. People don't go to doctors for years so they don't have anyone they can trust for medical advice and turn to crazy internet snake oil, because they lack the education to vet their sources.
- 0xy 5y ago
  Please stop spreading misinformation. Ivermectin is an approved human drug and has been FDA-approved for human purposes. [1] Implying it is for livestock exclusively fuels misinformation on the internet. Someone who actually genuinely needs ivermectin might not take it because of these lies. [1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ivermectin-covid-19-alberta-pandemic-1.6159985 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ivermectin-covid-19-a...
  - nradov 5y ago
    You are correct and shouldn't be down voted. Merck manufactures ivermectin as a human prescription medication in tablet form. The FDA approved it back in about 1981. Those who want authoritative information can go straight to the source. https://www.merck.com/research-and-products/products-list/ https://www.merck.com/research-and-products/products-list/ Ivermectin is also available in other forms such as a paste for veterinary use in horses and other animals. (I am not recommending anyone take veterinary medicine.)
  - c0nducktr 5y ago
    Please stop spreading misinformation. The people in hospital are not taking Ivermectin as prescribed by a physician. They're buying horse dewormer and dosing themselves. It's ridiculous to treat them as the same thing. I truly cannot believe you are incapable of seeing the difference.
ashleyn 5y ago
This is all my guess. American institutions have completely lost the trust of the lesser-educated demographic, are oblivious to this phenomenon, and sneer at those who distrust them instead of trying to be conscious of it and correct it. Something rotten is making livestock paste look a lot better to these people than taking a chance in a well-reputed doctor's office. What is driving the rural, poorly educated American to buy livestock medicine from the tractor supply store instead of going to the doctor? Let's put it this way, why do you and I go to the doctor? Would we still go there if we found the messengers of consensus, evidence-based medicine were saying and doing things we found untrustworthy or even worthy of moral condemnation? Speaking on anecdotal experience of having grown up in rural America, you don't really ever admit you're afraid of anything, especially going to the doctor. Instead, you cover it up with anger, denial, and magical thinking. I used to think "essential oils" and the like were people genuinely falling victim to naturalistic fallacy but then ivermectin for COVID-19 happened. The name "ivermectin" doesn't really sound natural to me. It still sounds "medicine-y". But it's coming from a place you find more reputable than a doctor. I think these people are shit scared to go to the doctor because they don't trust anything anyone on the TV tells them anymore. And why would that happen? Not necessarily that they're doing anything wrong, but they're tone deaf to this demographic, oblivious on how to communicate effectively to them. Call it an effect of class divide, perhaps. So finally, they turn to people that, astoundingly, seem more trustworthy: far right figures on social media, naturopathic woo, you name it. Maybe they talk differently. Maybe they use themes and culture familiar to them. Or maybe they just don't straight up demean them like segments of the news media are wont to do. If we fix a communication gap that potentially exists, how many more lives could we save instead of laughing and sneering at people confounded enough to choose horse dewormer over a well-tested vaccine?
- belltaco 5y ago
  >Something rotten is making livestock paste look a lot better to these people than taking a chance in a well-reputed doctor's office. What is driving the rural, poorly educated American to buy livestock medicine from the tractor supply store instead of going to the doctor? It started with Trump denying Covid was a threat because it'd tank the economy to take precautions against it before the elections. Of course it blew up anyway. So all the right wing media and pundits denied it was a danger. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAh4uS4f78o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAh4uS4f78o It's way easier to spread misinformation to gullible people than it is to counter it. The HCQ mania started with Fox News hosts misinterpreting studies and then telling Trump that it was a magic cure, the govt scientists were not in the loop. So when scientists tell the truth, suddenly it's their fault somehow. The party of personal responsibility should own up and stop blaming others for Republicans' propensity to fall for political and social media BS.
tazedsoul 5y ago
The article has the number of Ivermectin prescriptions in the last month, but not the number of people seeking emergency care due to Ivermectin. “Clogged up” isn’t quantifiable. Let’s upperbound an average worst-case situation. If every single person ingested Ivermectin and needed emergency care last month that did, that would be 88000/50 people in need of emergency care per state assuming a uniform distribution of such cases across the US by state, which I know is false but we are just concerned with the order of the problem. Still that’s 1700 people per state, or about 50 people per day per state in need of care. How many hospitals are there per state on average? Oklahoma has ~150, so that’s 50/150 cases per hospital per day. That’s .3 people per hospital per day seeking emergency care for Ivermectin. Does this “clog” the system? Maybe if it’s already overwhelmed by COVID, which it seems to be in Oklahoma. Of course, this is a back of the envelope approximation, but I’m skeptical that this is the problem it is being presented as.
- belltaco 5y ago
  People are eating horse paste meant for horse deworming and ending up with overdoses. They're buying them from vet pharmacies. Prescriptions are harder to overdose because they're meant for human consumption. So your calculations are wrong.
  - tazedsoul 5y ago
    Do we have numbers for ivermectin sales?
    - tazedsoul 5y ago
      This seems to be an anti-ivermectin narrative. Obviously, taking doses meant for horses is foolish. But people are conflating horse dosage ivermectin with human dosage. An anti horse dose narrative is perhaps necessary, but I still don’t see numbers to indicate the scale of that exact problem. The media seems hyper reactive to just about every idea these days. But the real scientific question is whether human dose ivermectin has efficacy in treating COVID. We are sidetracked about a debate about whether people taking horse dosages are foolish or not; this is a red herring. Again, we ought to be concerned with the question of whether a therapeutic dose of ivermectin for COVID exists. That horse doses are bad for people isn’t proof against the entirely different thesis that therapeutic doses exist.
pdmccormick 5y ago
In the interest of not overwhelming hospitals, wouldn't it be helpful if the media raised awareness on the difference between ivermectin dosages suitable for humans versus animals? Most of the reporting I've seen has sensationalized the "horse dewormer" angle.
csdreamer7 5y ago
Posting this here because at least two people in the comments keep posting a twisted narrative of the fact that Ivermectin is approved for human usage and ignore that the horse formula is different and untested in humans; which is what the article was discussing. From the FDA page linked in the article on the horse formulation: "Ivermectin Products for Animals Are Different from Ivermectin Products for People For one thing, animal drugs are often highly concentrated because they are used for large animals like horses and cows, which weigh a lot more than we do—a ton or more. Such high doses can be highly toxic in humans. Moreover, the FDA reviews drugs not just for safety and effectiveness of the active ingredients, but also for the inactive ingredients. Many inactive ingredients found in products for animals aren’t evaluated for use in people. Or they are included in much greater quantity than those used in people. In some cases, we don’t know how those inactive ingredients will affect how ivermectin is absorbed in the human body." They also claim to be concerned that people may not take the medication when they may need it; yet leave out that it should be taken under supervision, can interfere with common medications, and can overdose. "When Can Taking Ivermectin Be Unsafe? ... There’s a lot of misinformation around, and you may have heard that it’s okay to take large doses of ivermectin. It is not okay. Even the levels of ivermectin for approved human uses can interact with other medications, like blood-thinners. You can also overdose on ivermectin, which can cause nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, hypotension (low blood pressure), allergic reactions (itching and hives), dizziness, ataxia (problems with balance), seizures, coma and even death." https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19 https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-shoul... Edit: Grammar and formatting.
sparrish 5y ago
For a bit of context. The Dr. who reported this is Dr. Jason A. Mcelyea who works at Northeastern Health System Sequoyah in Sallisaw, OK. They have 6 ER beds.
- nradov 5y ago
  He doesn't even currently work there and apparently made up the story. https://dailycaller.com/2021/09/05/hospital-blows-holes-rolling-stone-story/ https://dailycaller.com/2021/09/05/hospital-blows-holes-roll...

33 points by belltaco 5y ago

How much do you want to bet this isn’t actually happening? I’m going to add this to the list of events that the media have reported that turned out to be not true at all like.

himinlomax 5y ago
The people who are telling you not to use ivermectin are not secretly using ivermectin. The people who tell you to get vaccinated have all been vaccinated. What do you believe is the angle here? Why would they lie to you regarding this?
France_is_bacon 5y ago
So...everything that you disagree with politically, is not true, right? No compromise, no trying to figure out the actual truth. Just reject everything that doesn't fit into your masters' stories that they tell you.
- refurb 5y ago
  Not at all, just skeptical. Take the Jan 6th riots at the Capitol. Heard much about those bombs planted at Democrat and Republican HQs? What about the cop who was murdered with a fire extinguisher? Oh yeah, that was made up. Apparently it was an organized rebellion led by Trump, but oh yeah, the FBI just concluded it wasn’t. You’d be served well to assume every news report is bullshit until proven otherwise. Whatever side you’re on.
  - France_is_bacon 5y ago
    I see your point now. That whole "insurrection" thing at the Capitol all happened at a stage in Hollywood with a greenscreen background, right? Either that or Elon Musk invented a Star Trek-like HoloDeck which would make it even more lifelike. The fires in California are not fires, the flooding in New York is not flooding. There was no tropical storm in Louisiana. All bullshit. All made up by Hollywood. And the Earth was created 6,000 years ago, and all 10 million scientists in the world who say it is 4.5 billion years old - all of them - are in the biggest conspiracy theory ever. Bigger than Bigfoot even. Oh, and the world is flat. I know all the Space launches and so called "pictures of a round earth" are all doctored, all by the libtards and Hollywood. Gotcha.
Uehreka 5y ago
(Raises hand) Bookie I’ll take the other side thanks!
- unraveller 5y ago
  pay up! but since you didn't stake anything it means a humiliation of the winner's choosing is in order. I hope he chooses something to do with eating premium horse feed, it's very tasty, like muesli.
- refurb 5y ago
  Do you want to use Venmo or the Cash App?
creato 5y ago
Here is the original source: https://kfor.com/news/local/patients-overdosing-on-ivermectin-backing-up-rural-oklahoma-hospitals-ambulances/ https://kfor.com/news/local/patients-overdosing-on-ivermecti...
smt88 5y ago
"The media" is directly quoting an ER doctor and other people using their real names. Why wouldn't this happen? Thousands of hospitals are warning that they're filling up. My friend who works in a hospital says there are patients in hallways. Nothing about this situation is unpredictable or unlikely. People have been expecting it for many months.
- akira2501 5y ago
  We're currently only seeing about 1/3 the number of cases as our last peak around New Years, and only about 1/10th the deaths. And while it should be expected, the rhetoric does not seem to match the raw numbers.
- refurb 5y ago
  Because Covid is so politicized now that people will exaggerate situations in order to “educate” the public. Combine that with the desperate news organizations for clicks and you get stories like this.
- nradov 5y ago
  This didn't happen. NHS Sequoyah has issued a statement and it turns out Dr. McElyea was lying. It's sad that Rolling Stone has such low journalistic standards and doesn't do fact checking.
0xdeadb00f 5y ago
Didn't similar shit happen after Trump recommended that one chemical (I don't remember what it was called )? This isnt unprecedented or anything.
- kevingadd 5y ago
  Yeah, unfortunately: https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/03/24/820512107/man-dies-woman-hospitalized-after-taking-form-of-chloroquine-to-prevent-covid-19 https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/0...
belltaco 5y ago
Rural Oklahoma is full of Republicans, someone working for the hospital could easily expose this if it were false and Fox News would be all over it. https://www.politico.com/2020-election/results/oklahoma/ https://www.politico.com/2020-election/results/oklahoma/ Hover over the south eastern counties that the article is referring to, you get like 85% votes for Trump, some of the highest margins in the nation. Which also explains the story, because they're the ones most likely to take and overdose ivermectin.
- nradov 5y ago
  The hospital itself exposed this as a false story. https://dailycaller.com/2021/09/05/hospital-blows-holes-rolling-stone-story/ https://dailycaller.com/2021/09/05/hospital-blows-holes-roll...
- nanis 5y ago
  https://twitter.com/DrewHolden360/status/1434591443855753220 https://twitter.com/DrewHolden360/status/1434591443855753220
- refurb 5y ago
  See why they report these fake stories? Because they perfectly fit the narrative in your head.
pdmccormick 5y ago
For the record, as of Sept 5 midnight EST, the following note is posted at https://nhssequoyah.com/ https://nhssequoyah.com/ : Message from the administration of Northeastern Health System - Sequoyah: Although Dr. Jason McElyea is not an employee of NHS Sequoyah, he is affiliated with a medical staffing group that provides coverage for our emergency room. With that said, Dr. McElyea has not worked at our Sallisaw location in over 2 months. NHS Sequoyah has not treated any patients due to complications related to taking ivermectin. This includes not treating any patients for ivermectin overdose. All patients who have visited our emergency room have received medical attention as appropriate. Our hospital has not had to turn away any patients seeking emergency care. We want to reassure our community that our staff is working hard to provide quality healthcare to all patients. We appreciate the opportunity to clarify this issue and as always, we value our community’s support.
the_ol_debunk 5y ago
Good call. https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/rolling-stone-horse-dewormer-hit-piece-debunked-after-hospital-says-no-ivermectin https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/rolling-stone-horse-dewor... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28421638 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28421638
- refurb 5y ago
  Hahaha. Yup. The “doctor” doesn’t even work at the hospital. https://nhssequoyah.com/ https://nhssequoyah.com/ Like I said in later replies, the media feeds off this kind of clickbait outrage. If you come across something really outrageous it’s mostly like untrue or at least exaggerated. The sad part is how widely shit like this is reported. Nobody bothered to even vaguely attempt to valid the story? Even check if the “doctor” works there? Even check if the county the hospital in has a lot of shootings. I mean, even just call the hospital to get a comment. Most news is total garbage.

France_is_bacon 5y ago

I would like to know "why" the ERs are letting gunshot victims, or other injured people, wait. If I was in charge of the ER, I would bump people out/put them lower on the priority list. The people who take ivermectin are idiots listening to idiots. Their genes need to be taken out of the gene pool. Maybe it is supposed to be first come, first serve, but there also is such a thing called triage. And while it means that the most injured person gets treated first, I think that does not apply in this case. It's like at a triage site, the dead get a black tag, so subsequent first responders know they are a waste of time to treat a dead person, and they can tell just by looking at the tag. In the same way, we should give those taking ivermectin a black tag, because their brain is dead.

josephcsible 5y ago
You think that if someone uses the wrong medical treatment, doctors should treat them as if they're already dead and never try to help them at all?
- threatofrain 5y ago
  deleted
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    > Ivermectin is not human medicine Not only is Ivermectin a human medicine, it's one of the more globally important ones.
    - wyldfire 5y ago
      Unfortunately ivermectin proponents highly intersect with 'crazy kooks'. But I'm hoping a non-crazy proponent can help elucidate the rationale. For example: are there other coronaviruses or any viruses which are treated (in people or animals) with ivermectin? If so, which? If not, why would the original proponent(s) attempt this drug over any other one? EDIT: maybe I was too quick to dismiss it: follow the responses on the thread.

__m 5y ago

They claim to not be sheep, but take livestock medicine

baron816 5y ago

So people don't want to take the vaccine because it was supposedly not tested thoroughly on humans, but they're willing to take livestock dewormer which is well known to be toxic at these doses?

jmcgough 5y ago
For a while I made snarky comments about how dumb people are doing doing this. But now I just think it's sad. I saw this tweet by someone in the UK the other day, stating that we wouldn't be having this situation if we had free, accessible healthcare. People don't go to doctors for years so they don't have anyone they can trust for medical advice and turn to crazy internet snake oil, because they lack the education to vet their sources.
0xy 5y ago
Please stop spreading misinformation. Ivermectin is an approved human drug and has been FDA-approved for human purposes. [1] Implying it is for livestock exclusively fuels misinformation on the internet. Someone who actually genuinely needs ivermectin might not take it because of these lies. [1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ivermectin-covid-19-alberta-pandemic-1.6159985 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ivermectin-covid-19-a...
- nradov 5y ago
  You are correct and shouldn't be down voted. Merck manufactures ivermectin as a human prescription medication in tablet form. The FDA approved it back in about 1981. Those who want authoritative information can go straight to the source. https://www.merck.com/research-and-products/products-list/ https://www.merck.com/research-and-products/products-list/ Ivermectin is also available in other forms such as a paste for veterinary use in horses and other animals. (I am not recommending anyone take veterinary medicine.)
- c0nducktr 5y ago
  Please stop spreading misinformation. The people in hospital are not taking Ivermectin as prescribed by a physician. They're buying horse dewormer and dosing themselves. It's ridiculous to treat them as the same thing. I truly cannot believe you are incapable of seeing the difference.

ashleyn 5y ago

This is all my guess. American institutions have completely lost the trust of the lesser-educated demographic, are oblivious to this phenomenon, and sneer at those who distrust them instead of trying to be conscious of it and correct it. Something rotten is making livestock paste look a lot better to these people than taking a chance in a well-reputed doctor's office. What is driving the rural, poorly educated American to buy livestock medicine from the tractor supply store instead of going to the doctor? Let's put it this way, why do you and I go to the doctor? Would we still go there if we found the messengers of consensus, evidence-based medicine were saying and doing things we found untrustworthy or even worthy of moral condemnation? Speaking on anecdotal experience of having grown up in rural America, you don't really ever admit you're afraid of anything, especially going to the doctor. Instead, you cover it up with anger, denial, and magical thinking. I used to think "essential oils" and the like were people genuinely falling victim to naturalistic fallacy but then ivermectin for COVID-19 happened. The name "ivermectin" doesn't really sound natural to me. It still sounds "medicine-y". But it's coming from a place you find more reputable than a doctor. I think these people are shit scared to go to the doctor because they don't trust anything anyone on the TV tells them anymore. And why would that happen? Not necessarily that they're doing anything wrong, but they're tone deaf to this demographic, oblivious on how to communicate effectively to them. Call it an effect of class divide, perhaps. So finally, they turn to people that, astoundingly, seem more trustworthy: far right figures on social media, naturopathic woo, you name it. Maybe they talk differently. Maybe they use themes and culture familiar to them. Or maybe they just don't straight up demean them like segments of the news media are wont to do. If we fix a communication gap that potentially exists, how many more lives could we save instead of laughing and sneering at people confounded enough to choose horse dewormer over a well-tested vaccine?

belltaco 5y ago
>Something rotten is making livestock paste look a lot better to these people than taking a chance in a well-reputed doctor's office. What is driving the rural, poorly educated American to buy livestock medicine from the tractor supply store instead of going to the doctor? It started with Trump denying Covid was a threat because it'd tank the economy to take precautions against it before the elections. Of course it blew up anyway. So all the right wing media and pundits denied it was a danger. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAh4uS4f78o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAh4uS4f78o It's way easier to spread misinformation to gullible people than it is to counter it. The HCQ mania started with Fox News hosts misinterpreting studies and then telling Trump that it was a magic cure, the govt scientists were not in the loop. So when scientists tell the truth, suddenly it's their fault somehow. The party of personal responsibility should own up and stop blaming others for Republicans' propensity to fall for political and social media BS.

tazedsoul 5y ago

The article has the number of Ivermectin prescriptions in the last month, but not the number of people seeking emergency care due to Ivermectin. “Clogged up” isn’t quantifiable. Let’s upperbound an average worst-case situation. If every single person ingested Ivermectin and needed emergency care last month that did, that would be 88000/50 people in need of emergency care per state assuming a uniform distribution of such cases across the US by state, which I know is false but we are just concerned with the order of the problem. Still that’s 1700 people per state, or about 50 people per day per state in need of care. How many hospitals are there per state on average? Oklahoma has ~150, so that’s 50/150 cases per hospital per day. That’s .3 people per hospital per day seeking emergency care for Ivermectin. Does this “clog” the system? Maybe if it’s already overwhelmed by COVID, which it seems to be in Oklahoma. Of course, this is a back of the envelope approximation, but I’m skeptical that this is the problem it is being presented as.

belltaco 5y ago
People are eating horse paste meant for horse deworming and ending up with overdoses. They're buying them from vet pharmacies. Prescriptions are harder to overdose because they're meant for human consumption. So your calculations are wrong.
- tazedsoul 5y ago
  Do we have numbers for ivermectin sales?
  - tazedsoul 5y ago
    This seems to be an anti-ivermectin narrative. Obviously, taking doses meant for horses is foolish. But people are conflating horse dosage ivermectin with human dosage. An anti horse dose narrative is perhaps necessary, but I still don’t see numbers to indicate the scale of that exact problem. The media seems hyper reactive to just about every idea these days. But the real scientific question is whether human dose ivermectin has efficacy in treating COVID. We are sidetracked about a debate about whether people taking horse dosages are foolish or not; this is a red herring. Again, we ought to be concerned with the question of whether a therapeutic dose of ivermectin for COVID exists. That horse doses are bad for people isn’t proof against the entirely different thesis that therapeutic doses exist.

pdmccormick 5y ago

In the interest of not overwhelming hospitals, wouldn't it be helpful if the media raised awareness on the difference between ivermectin dosages suitable for humans versus animals? Most of the reporting I've seen has sensationalized the "horse dewormer" angle.

csdreamer7 5y ago

Posting this here because at least two people in the comments keep posting a twisted narrative of the fact that Ivermectin is approved for human usage and ignore that the horse formula is different and untested in humans; which is what the article was discussing. From the FDA page linked in the article on the horse formulation: "Ivermectin Products for Animals Are Different from Ivermectin Products for People For one thing, animal drugs are often highly concentrated because they are used for large animals like horses and cows, which weigh a lot more than we do—a ton or more. Such high doses can be highly toxic in humans. Moreover, the FDA reviews drugs not just for safety and effectiveness of the active ingredients, but also for the inactive ingredients. Many inactive ingredients found in products for animals aren’t evaluated for use in people. Or they are included in much greater quantity than those used in people. In some cases, we don’t know how those inactive ingredients will affect how ivermectin is absorbed in the human body." They also claim to be concerned that people may not take the medication when they may need it; yet leave out that it should be taken under supervision, can interfere with common medications, and can overdose. "When Can Taking Ivermectin Be Unsafe? ... There’s a lot of misinformation around, and you may have heard that it’s okay to take large doses of ivermectin. It is not okay. Even the levels of ivermectin for approved human uses can interact with other medications, like blood-thinners. You can also overdose on ivermectin, which can cause nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, hypotension (low blood pressure), allergic reactions (itching and hives), dizziness, ataxia (problems with balance), seizures, coma and even death." https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19 https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-shoul... Edit: Grammar and formatting.

sparrish 5y ago

For a bit of context. The Dr. who reported this is Dr. Jason A. Mcelyea who works at Northeastern Health System Sequoyah in Sallisaw, OK. They have 6 ER beds.

nradov 5y ago
He doesn't even currently work there and apparently made up the story. https://dailycaller.com/2021/09/05/hospital-blows-holes-rolling-stone-story/ https://dailycaller.com/2021/09/05/hospital-blows-holes-roll...