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There's one job in the US that is currently experiencing extremely high rates of burnout. ICU Nurses. What can we learn about burnout from them in this curren

There's one job in the US that is currently experiencing extremely high rates of burnout. ICU Nurses. What can we learn about burnout from them in this current situation? I don't think "Burnout is caused by working hard at something for a long time and not having it pay off." applies for them in at all. They are constantly saving lives and constantly seeing the positive results of their actions. My first guess is that there's just too much work for them in the regions where ICUs which are overburdened. Many ICUs have had to up their nurse-to-patient ratio above 1:2, often to 1:3 and in some places even 1:5 or 1:6. Moreover, many ICU nurses are forced into picking up extra shifts.

void_mint 5y ago
I would argue that working really hard to keep people alive through covid while society continues to totally ignore and neglect precaution, thus causing further illness and death, is exactly fitting for "working hard at something for a long time and not having it pay off".
- baobabKoodaa 5y ago
  I don't think it's fair to say that society completely ignores precaution, in fact large swaths of society are sacrificing a lot in order to prevent covid. Especially when you compare to other causes of death, like mobility or obesity. People are willing to sacrifice 100x more to prevent a covid death than they are to prevent a traffic death.
Olreich 5y ago
The payoff for ICU nurses is a new critical patient right now. They don’t get to see the lives they save reunited with family or recovering at all. They just get a transfer to a lower level of care and a new patient in. They are also seeing a lot more deaths than usual. 10% mortality is in the ballpark normally. With COVID they are seeing 50% mortality. That’s a lot to deal with, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a major factor in burnout.
- mym1990 5y ago
  They also have to step into the world outside of the hospital and see people doing the exact things that are making the situation worse.
- void_mint 5y ago
  > With COVID they are seeing 50% mortality. Source?
  - distances 5y ago
    Not your source, but there was an interesting thread in Reddit with nurses discussing how basically all intubated patients are now checking out via morgue. https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/pbvcdu/uhh_are_any_of_these_unvaccinated_patients_in https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/pbvcdu/uhh_are_any...
mym1990 5y ago
I will always marvel at nursing as a profession and nurses as human beings. My sister just became a nurse and I dated a nurse as well, and while it is a rewarding job, it is also incredibly taxing...no less in today's circumstances. Burnout can come from many different directions though, but everyone has a limit at which no incentive provides enough benefit to outweigh the cost.
spaetzleesser 5y ago
"I don't think "Burnout is caused by working hard at something for a long time and not having it pay off." applies for them in at all. They are constantly saving lives and constantly seeing the positive results of their actions. " That's not really a payoff after a while. I work at a medical device company. When I started I got a kick out of all the great patient stories. Even my girlfriend's life changed from suicidal to pretty good because of our device. But after a while never-ending the deadline pressure got to me and no amount of patient success was motivating anymore. I think it's the same in the ICU. After a while you get numb. Only off time and less pressure can reset your emotional gas tank.
- sul_tasto 5y ago
  Your comment leads me to think that the “wins” need to vary in type over time -that it’s not possible to recycle the same win indefinitely.
- dougmwne 5y ago
  From working in the nonprofit space, the mission is motivating, but it's also the thing you are sacrificing for. You are not working towards your personal benefit, but towards an abstract benefit received elsewhere. The pay is low and the opportunities for advancement are often limited. Burnout is very common. You must also work for your own benefit, otherwise you will eventually feel like a sucker, no matter how many lives you are saving. You end up thinking these bigger questions like, "why is this only my responsibility to sacrifice? I don't see anyone else making sacrifices!" And "Why is it my responsibility to clean up this mess? Those other people are creating the mess for their own profit but somehow I'm the one that has to fix it?" It's basically inevitable to recoil at being the one always stuck with the bill while everyone else stops even noticing you paid for them.
matheusmoreira 5y ago
The payoff is the critical patient goes away and is replaced by a new one. More work for all involved. Never ending work. In my country, they say it's like wiping down ice. There's less water now but the ice doesn't ever stop melting.

void_mint 5y ago

I would argue that working really hard to keep people alive through covid while society continues to totally ignore and neglect precaution, thus causing further illness and death, is exactly fitting for "working hard at something for a long time and not having it pay off".

baobabKoodaa 5y ago
I don't think it's fair to say that society completely ignores precaution, in fact large swaths of society are sacrificing a lot in order to prevent covid. Especially when you compare to other causes of death, like mobility or obesity. People are willing to sacrifice 100x more to prevent a covid death than they are to prevent a traffic death.

Olreich 5y ago

The payoff for ICU nurses is a new critical patient right now. They don’t get to see the lives they save reunited with family or recovering at all. They just get a transfer to a lower level of care and a new patient in. They are also seeing a lot more deaths than usual. 10% mortality is in the ballpark normally. With COVID they are seeing 50% mortality. That’s a lot to deal with, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a major factor in burnout.

mym1990 5y ago
They also have to step into the world outside of the hospital and see people doing the exact things that are making the situation worse.
void_mint 5y ago
> With COVID they are seeing 50% mortality. Source?
- distances 5y ago
  Not your source, but there was an interesting thread in Reddit with nurses discussing how basically all intubated patients are now checking out via morgue. https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/pbvcdu/uhh_are_any_of_these_unvaccinated_patients_in https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/pbvcdu/uhh_are_any...

mym1990 5y ago

I will always marvel at nursing as a profession and nurses as human beings. My sister just became a nurse and I dated a nurse as well, and while it is a rewarding job, it is also incredibly taxing...no less in today's circumstances. Burnout can come from many different directions though, but everyone has a limit at which no incentive provides enough benefit to outweigh the cost.

spaetzleesser 5y ago

"I don't think "Burnout is caused by working hard at something for a long time and not having it pay off." applies for them in at all. They are constantly saving lives and constantly seeing the positive results of their actions. " That's not really a payoff after a while. I work at a medical device company. When I started I got a kick out of all the great patient stories. Even my girlfriend's life changed from suicidal to pretty good because of our device. But after a while never-ending the deadline pressure got to me and no amount of patient success was motivating anymore. I think it's the same in the ICU. After a while you get numb. Only off time and less pressure can reset your emotional gas tank.

sul_tasto 5y ago
Your comment leads me to think that the “wins” need to vary in type over time -that it’s not possible to recycle the same win indefinitely.
dougmwne 5y ago
From working in the nonprofit space, the mission is motivating, but it's also the thing you are sacrificing for. You are not working towards your personal benefit, but towards an abstract benefit received elsewhere. The pay is low and the opportunities for advancement are often limited. Burnout is very common. You must also work for your own benefit, otherwise you will eventually feel like a sucker, no matter how many lives you are saving. You end up thinking these bigger questions like, "why is this only my responsibility to sacrifice? I don't see anyone else making sacrifices!" And "Why is it my responsibility to clean up this mess? Those other people are creating the mess for their own profit but somehow I'm the one that has to fix it?" It's basically inevitable to recoil at being the one always stuck with the bill while everyone else stops even noticing you paid for them.

matheusmoreira 5y ago

The payoff is the critical patient goes away and is replaced by a new one. More work for all involved. Never ending work. In my country, they say it's like wiping down ice. There's less water now but the ice doesn't ever stop melting.