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My last job implemented an unlimited PTO policy. In 2020, I took about 7 days off, and worked at least 20 days on weekends. With the increased responsibilities,

My last job implemented an unlimited PTO policy. In 2020, I took about 7 days off, and worked at least 20 days on weekends. With the increased responsibilities, there just wasn’t any time that was good to leave… until I left for good. It was definitely a factor in my current burnout. The funny thing was before the VCs bought the company, I had two weeks but in practice could ask the CTO for as much time as I wanted. But unlimited PTO functionally meant negative days off, because performance would decrease when you left. Setting a minimum PTO might help.

jrockway 5y ago
Yeah, if I ever start a company, mandatory vacation will be a thing. If you don't use up your 4 weeks of vacation before Thanksgiving, don't come to work for the rest of the year. Don't worry, there will still be work when you get back. Another thing I like are company holidays. When nobody is working, there is no email / code reviews / Slack to miss. That's a real vacation!
- soneil 5y ago
  There's industries where mandatory vacations (or "Required Absence") are a thing - in finance it's not unusual to be required to take at least one two-week block each year. It helps reduce bus-factor (if you can't afford to lose this person for two weeks, he's a risk), and helps prevent embezzlement because most schemes require constant baby-sitting.
  - jrockway 5y ago
    Yeah, I've worked at such a bank. The consensus was that we would all use "cron" to embezzle.
- wccrawford 5y ago
  That'd be awesome, personally. I'd fail to use my 4 weeks every year, and always get December off, which is probably the most requested month for vacations. If you want that policy to have teeth, maybe end the "year" on a month that few people want vacations, like February. (I'll pull that out of my arse, but it's less than December, I'm sure.) That would cause them to actually schedule their vacation when they can use it and enjoy it, instead of sitting at home for a month with nothing to do when it crept up on them. IMO, at least.
- namrog84 5y ago
  It really does need to come from leadership. The last 2 places I've worked had basically no work after Thanksgiving and much of leadership did take off basically entire month of December. Also we recently started having an occasionally Friday that everyone takes off same time. You don't have too but to make it easier that people who are often quite busy have an opportunity to not feel like things are getting behind. Over 90% participation(100+ people) in our group mental health day.
beerandt 5y ago
Do people not just start taking forever PTO, a week or two at a time, instead of quitting? Or take a sabbatical or maternity/paternity leave and just never come back?
sul_tasto 5y ago
The same thing happened to me. Unlimited PTO is a scam.
disgruntledphd2 5y ago
> Setting a minimum PTO might help This is how it has to be implemented in EU countries, so in general it appears to be (in Ireland, at least) the statutory 20 days + whatever. People have told me that they've taken up to 8 weeks. But I've never ended up working at any of those companies so it's hard to know if that's true or not.

jrockway 5y ago

Yeah, if I ever start a company, mandatory vacation will be a thing. If you don't use up your 4 weeks of vacation before Thanksgiving, don't come to work for the rest of the year. Don't worry, there will still be work when you get back. Another thing I like are company holidays. When nobody is working, there is no email / code reviews / Slack to miss. That's a real vacation!

soneil 5y ago
There's industries where mandatory vacations (or "Required Absence") are a thing - in finance it's not unusual to be required to take at least one two-week block each year. It helps reduce bus-factor (if you can't afford to lose this person for two weeks, he's a risk), and helps prevent embezzlement because most schemes require constant baby-sitting.
- jrockway 5y ago
  Yeah, I've worked at such a bank. The consensus was that we would all use "cron" to embezzle.
wccrawford 5y ago
That'd be awesome, personally. I'd fail to use my 4 weeks every year, and always get December off, which is probably the most requested month for vacations. If you want that policy to have teeth, maybe end the "year" on a month that few people want vacations, like February. (I'll pull that out of my arse, but it's less than December, I'm sure.) That would cause them to actually schedule their vacation when they can use it and enjoy it, instead of sitting at home for a month with nothing to do when it crept up on them. IMO, at least.
namrog84 5y ago
It really does need to come from leadership. The last 2 places I've worked had basically no work after Thanksgiving and much of leadership did take off basically entire month of December. Also we recently started having an occasionally Friday that everyone takes off same time. You don't have too but to make it easier that people who are often quite busy have an opportunity to not feel like things are getting behind. Over 90% participation(100+ people) in our group mental health day.

beerandt 5y ago

Do people not just start taking forever PTO, a week or two at a time, instead of quitting? Or take a sabbatical or maternity/paternity leave and just never come back?

sul_tasto 5y ago

The same thing happened to me. Unlimited PTO is a scam.

disgruntledphd2 5y ago

> Setting a minimum PTO might help This is how it has to be implemented in EU countries, so in general it appears to be (in Ireland, at least) the statutory 20 days + whatever. People have told me that they've taken up to 8 weeks. But I've never ended up working at any of those companies so it's hard to know if that's true or not.