4 ms·

Why are they not allowed to restrain a shoplifter? In Germany, that's covered by the "anyone's" right: if you see someone commit a crime, you can detain/restrai

Why are they not allowed to restrain a shoplifter? In Germany, that's covered by the "anyone's" right: if you see someone commit a crime, you can detain/restrain them until the police arrives. Some restrictions apply, like for example having to watch the crime yourself etc but for shop security staff it's enough rights https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festnahme#Jedermann-Festnahme https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festnahme#Jedermann-Festnahme

bpodgursky 5y ago
They're allowed in a legal sense, but the store often orders security not to physically intervene because of the potential legal liability if either party is injured.
DavidPeiffer 5y ago
It's not necessarily that they can't legally do so, but it's against the policy of every single store. If you do so as an employee, you will most likely get fired. No amount of merchandise is worth risking an employees life. Healthcare is a mess over here, but we do generally have that part right. Restraining a shoplifter could lead to liability issues for the employer. For example, if the shoplifter injures the employee, there's a workplace injury that goes on the OSHA record, you have an employee who is out for some amount of time, it could increase insurance rates, and it could lead to the employee getting shot if the shoplifter were particularly violent. Additionally, if the shoplifter gets injured, they may sue the store for the injury they sustained. Most of the US does allow a citizens arrest to be performed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen%27s_arrest https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen%27s_arrest
SavantIdiot 5y ago
Who's gonna detain some meth head with knife for minimum wage and risk getting killed for poverty wages?
- bpodgursky 5y ago
  Honestly a lot of security guards would have fun subduing a guy like this (as heroically as possible), and that's why the stores have policies against it.
nkrisc 5y ago
There’s zero incentive for anyone to do so. Best case scenario they get a pat on the back. Worst case scenario they get killed or permanently injured/disabled. There’s no reason to put your life on the line for a corporation that will put nothing on the line for you.
oh_sigh 5y ago
In the US, we generally have "Shopkeeper's privilege", which lets shopkeepers detain a person reasonably suspected of shoplifting while an investigation happens. Usually that involves just calling the police, or taking their picture and telling them they're banned for life, and then letting them go.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  I think GP knows shopkeeper's privilege exists and is asking why stores often don't let their employees use it.
  - oh_sigh 5y ago
    I think they know it exists in their legal tradition in Germany, but not necessarily that there was an analog in the US.
    - carstenhag 5y ago
      Exactly, I didn't know it's also legal in the US. Even more so confuses me - why hire security at all, if they aren't doing their job? In Germany, you'd fire the security if they wouldn't go after thieves. Also, there are no liability problems... But then, people with guns or knifes are very rare.

bpodgursky 5y ago

They're allowed in a legal sense, but the store often orders security not to physically intervene because of the potential legal liability if either party is injured.

DavidPeiffer 5y ago

It's not necessarily that they can't legally do so, but it's against the policy of every single store. If you do so as an employee, you will most likely get fired. No amount of merchandise is worth risking an employees life. Healthcare is a mess over here, but we do generally have that part right. Restraining a shoplifter could lead to liability issues for the employer. For example, if the shoplifter injures the employee, there's a workplace injury that goes on the OSHA record, you have an employee who is out for some amount of time, it could increase insurance rates, and it could lead to the employee getting shot if the shoplifter were particularly violent. Additionally, if the shoplifter gets injured, they may sue the store for the injury they sustained. Most of the US does allow a citizens arrest to be performed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen%27s_arrest https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen%27s_arrest

SavantIdiot 5y ago

Who's gonna detain some meth head with knife for minimum wage and risk getting killed for poverty wages?

bpodgursky 5y ago
Honestly a lot of security guards would have fun subduing a guy like this (as heroically as possible), and that's why the stores have policies against it.

nkrisc 5y ago

There’s zero incentive for anyone to do so. Best case scenario they get a pat on the back. Worst case scenario they get killed or permanently injured/disabled. There’s no reason to put your life on the line for a corporation that will put nothing on the line for you.

oh_sigh 5y ago

In the US, we generally have "Shopkeeper's privilege", which lets shopkeepers detain a person reasonably suspected of shoplifting while an investigation happens. Usually that involves just calling the police, or taking their picture and telling them they're banned for life, and then letting them go.

josephcsible 5y ago
I think GP knows shopkeeper's privilege exists and is asking why stores often don't let their employees use it.
- oh_sigh 5y ago
  I think they know it exists in their legal tradition in Germany, but not necessarily that there was an analog in the US.
  - carstenhag 5y ago
    Exactly, I didn't know it's also legal in the US. Even more so confuses me - why hire security at all, if they aren't doing their job? In Germany, you'd fire the security if they wouldn't go after thieves. Also, there are no liability problems... But then, people with guns or knifes are very rare.