8 ms·

Is it hard to make all these elements consistent?

by quyleanh 5y ago

Darmody 5y ago
They are not going to lose users because of this, so why bother?
- ziml77 5y ago
  This is certainly why. There's not much value in making them consistent. Hell, I notice these things but don't really think or care much about them. It just doesn't affect my interactions. They all still look like places to enter text, which is the important part of their design.
  - hexa22 5y ago
    Tbh some of these even look better in context. I’m not sure why it even matters that every text box is pixel perfect identical rather than suitable for the environment.
- solarkraft 5y ago
  It’s a part of why they lost me.
  - Darmody 5y ago
    I should've said they won't lose a a meaningful share of users. Most people don't care. They probably don't even notice because they only use third party software on top of Windows.
    - datenarsch 5y ago
      It's not true that most people don't care. Most people absolutely hate it that they have to re-learn Word or Excel or Windows whenever a new version comes out. Just ask any mom or dad. But what can they do about it, really? Nothing.
jlund-molfese 5y ago
Windows does have a large visual surface, but so does OS X, and Apple mostly manages to have a consistent UI. I wonder if that's because Microsoft has introduced so many different UI frameworks over the years.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Try to run Carbon, Cocoa, Catalyst and SwiftUI applications across similar workflows and you will find similar issues. Last week's ATP podcast had a long rant about it.
- codebolt 5y ago
  And most of them are now deprecated. In fact, on .NET 5, there is no good desktop UI framework at all. It seems to me that if you wrote a Windows Desktop app in the last 30 years, the only way it would still be supported today (i.e. possible to maintain using non-deprecated frameworks) is if it was based directly on the old Win32 API (or the MFC wrapper).
  - dleslie 5y ago
    This is mostly correct, I think. Just imagine all those SilverLight apps that are languishing.
  - judge2020 5y ago
    Someday: https://github.com/dotnet/maui https://github.com/dotnet/maui
  - sjmulder 5y ago
    > if you wrote a Windows Desktop app in the last 30 years, the only way it would still be supported today ... is if it was based directly on the old Win32 API I thought the same and did just that to see if it holds true: https://github.com/sjmulder/netwake https://github.com/sjmulder/netwake By default you get Windows 95 styling and Windows 3 fonts. You have to opt into 'visual styles' (introduced in XP) with a declaration in the app manifest and have to manually query and use the system font. DPI awareness is also opt in and puts all the work (sizing/positioning, scaling/reloading fonts) on you. But when you do that, it does look fine on Windows 10. Not so much on Windows 11. Some of the widgets have been updated to mimic the new style but when you put it together it looks messy and old fashioned (e.g. fonts + you don't get the new context menus). I'm curious to learn how one would create a 'proper' Windows app without having to reimplement the system's widget styling.
whalesalad 5y ago
Based on the last hundred years of Windows releases - apparently the answer is yes.

Is it hard to make all these elements consistent?

Darmody 5y ago

They are not going to lose users because of this, so why bother?

ziml77 5y ago
This is certainly why. There's not much value in making them consistent. Hell, I notice these things but don't really think or care much about them. It just doesn't affect my interactions. They all still look like places to enter text, which is the important part of their design.
- hexa22 5y ago
  Tbh some of these even look better in context. I’m not sure why it even matters that every text box is pixel perfect identical rather than suitable for the environment.
solarkraft 5y ago
It’s a part of why they lost me.
- Darmody 5y ago
  I should've said they won't lose a a meaningful share of users. Most people don't care. They probably don't even notice because they only use third party software on top of Windows.
  - datenarsch 5y ago
    It's not true that most people don't care. Most people absolutely hate it that they have to re-learn Word or Excel or Windows whenever a new version comes out. Just ask any mom or dad. But what can they do about it, really? Nothing.

jlund-molfese 5y ago

Windows does have a large visual surface, but so does OS X, and Apple mostly manages to have a consistent UI. I wonder if that's because Microsoft has introduced so many different UI frameworks over the years.

pjmlp 5y ago
Try to run Carbon, Cocoa, Catalyst and SwiftUI applications across similar workflows and you will find similar issues. Last week's ATP podcast had a long rant about it.
codebolt 5y ago
And most of them are now deprecated. In fact, on .NET 5, there is no good desktop UI framework at all. It seems to me that if you wrote a Windows Desktop app in the last 30 years, the only way it would still be supported today (i.e. possible to maintain using non-deprecated frameworks) is if it was based directly on the old Win32 API (or the MFC wrapper).
- dleslie 5y ago
  This is mostly correct, I think. Just imagine all those SilverLight apps that are languishing.
- judge2020 5y ago
  Someday: https://github.com/dotnet/maui https://github.com/dotnet/maui
- sjmulder 5y ago
  > if you wrote a Windows Desktop app in the last 30 years, the only way it would still be supported today ... is if it was based directly on the old Win32 API I thought the same and did just that to see if it holds true: https://github.com/sjmulder/netwake https://github.com/sjmulder/netwake By default you get Windows 95 styling and Windows 3 fonts. You have to opt into 'visual styles' (introduced in XP) with a declaration in the app manifest and have to manually query and use the system font. DPI awareness is also opt in and puts all the work (sizing/positioning, scaling/reloading fonts) on you. But when you do that, it does look fine on Windows 10. Not so much on Windows 11. Some of the widgets have been updated to mimic the new style but when you put it together it looks messy and old fashioned (e.g. fonts + you don't get the new context menus). I'm curious to learn how one would create a 'proper' Windows app without having to reimplement the system's widget styling.

whalesalad 5y ago

Based on the last hundred years of Windows releases - apparently the answer is yes.