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> But what if there's nothing intrinsically grating about up-speaking, and instead it only reminds us of young women? One of my autistic-traits is that some vo

> But what if there's nothing intrinsically grating about up-speaking, and instead it only reminds us of young women? One of my autistic-traits is that some vocal sounds, tics, and things like that are incredibly irritating to me - it's nothing to do with any mental-associations like that, it's just something my brain/body does. ...but if I were in the same position I'd probably just grin-and-bear it: it's not something worth raising a (potential) fuss over, especially the optics of being seen as being sexist or "man-splaining" to a woman how they should speak (a huge obvious no-no right there).

jmeister 5y ago
Ironically, neurodiversity — the kind of diversity that matters most for intellectual work — gets choked in the current DEI rush.
- eliasmacpherson 5y ago
  My and other's regional accents have been the source of consternation at work. Speakers with regional accents have been encouraged to modify them for the benefit of non native English speakers by the DEI group. I find that ironic.
  - DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
    > I find that ironic. Whyso? At work you're expected to function as a team, and part of being a team necessarily means needing to make personal compromises for the team's sake. In this situation, non-native English speakers are going through the monumental effort of both learning English and having to put their skills to the test every day instead of them working and communicating in their fluent language. While people with accents such that they're harder for non-native speakers to understand are being asked to have clearer enunciation - for the sake of the team. You're not being asked to change your accent, just to have clearer enunciation (if your org's DEI team said "accent" instead of "enunciation" then their wording is unhelpfully vague or demonstrably open to misinterpretation) - and not for the benefit of people who aren't themselves doing anything for their own situation (it's not like the non-native English speakers in your workplace are insisting everyone speak their language, after all). Everyone is making a compromise for everyone's sake. There's nothing ironic about it at all - just unfortunate messaging from the DEI people.
    - eliasmacpherson 5y ago
      Well they said accent. They also mentioned the speed at which people with such accents talked. So both were asked to be modified. The irony is the reduction in diversity of speaking is requested to improve the equity and inclusivity of comprehension.
    - dahfizz 5y ago
      Do you think a DEI team would ever ask a non-native speaker to modify their accent to make it easier for the rest of the team to understand them?
  - dekhn 5y ago
    Did you get that request on paper? Share it with wider groups, it should be interesting if people learn DEI groups are asking americans with regional accents to change them.
    - eliasmacpherson 5y ago
      No, electronically. I am more inclined to charitably view it as a minor inconsiderate overstep, an internal matter not for public consumption. Perhaps if it was phrased as 'enunciation' it would not have garnered any reaction. There is no way to do what you suggest without risking a mob.
      - dekhn 5y ago
        I mean, you can make a hardcopy with the DEI team's name attached to the statement? You should risk the mob. It's not ok for a DEI team to ask people to tailor their regional accents for foreigners who don't speak english well. You can also release this anonymously (it's hard for people to deny written exchanges because the results are in many inboxes).
        eliasmacpherson 5y ago
        Thanks for your advice, but I don't believe in mob 'justice'. I'd rather take it up with the DEI team than the internet! Also on a point of misunderstanding it's not an Americans vs. Foreigners situation.
        dekhn 5y ago
        You will find that the DEI team feels empowered to ignore you. I'm not saying to take advantage of mob justice, just shine a larger light on the facts.
- type0 5y ago
  Not ironically, that's intended, here's the diversity definition explained for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsVDWuQYzxs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsVDWuQYzxs
  - DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
    "New Discourses" is headed by one James Lindsay, of which it is said: > Lindsay is a critic of woke culture Riiiight. > Lindsay announced his intention to vote for Trump in the 2020 election, citing illiberalism on the left as the reason I'm not interested in polemics from people who voted for Trump because they feel the opposition is "illiberal".
op00to 5y ago
It’s not male or female. It’s rude to tell people they are talking wrong.
- hopelessattic 5y ago
  Personally I find it rude not to provide honest, constructive feedback because it robs me of a chance to learn.

jmeister 5y ago

Ironically, neurodiversity — the kind of diversity that matters most for intellectual work — gets choked in the current DEI rush.

eliasmacpherson 5y ago
My and other's regional accents have been the source of consternation at work. Speakers with regional accents have been encouraged to modify them for the benefit of non native English speakers by the DEI group. I find that ironic.
- DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
  > I find that ironic. Whyso? At work you're expected to function as a team, and part of being a team necessarily means needing to make personal compromises for the team's sake. In this situation, non-native English speakers are going through the monumental effort of both learning English and having to put their skills to the test every day instead of them working and communicating in their fluent language. While people with accents such that they're harder for non-native speakers to understand are being asked to have clearer enunciation - for the sake of the team. You're not being asked to change your accent, just to have clearer enunciation (if your org's DEI team said "accent" instead of "enunciation" then their wording is unhelpfully vague or demonstrably open to misinterpretation) - and not for the benefit of people who aren't themselves doing anything for their own situation (it's not like the non-native English speakers in your workplace are insisting everyone speak their language, after all). Everyone is making a compromise for everyone's sake. There's nothing ironic about it at all - just unfortunate messaging from the DEI people.
  - eliasmacpherson 5y ago
    Well they said accent. They also mentioned the speed at which people with such accents talked. So both were asked to be modified. The irony is the reduction in diversity of speaking is requested to improve the equity and inclusivity of comprehension.
  - dahfizz 5y ago
    Do you think a DEI team would ever ask a non-native speaker to modify their accent to make it easier for the rest of the team to understand them?
- dekhn 5y ago
  Did you get that request on paper? Share it with wider groups, it should be interesting if people learn DEI groups are asking americans with regional accents to change them.
  - eliasmacpherson 5y ago
    No, electronically. I am more inclined to charitably view it as a minor inconsiderate overstep, an internal matter not for public consumption. Perhaps if it was phrased as 'enunciation' it would not have garnered any reaction. There is no way to do what you suggest without risking a mob.
    - dekhn 5y ago
      I mean, you can make a hardcopy with the DEI team's name attached to the statement? You should risk the mob. It's not ok for a DEI team to ask people to tailor their regional accents for foreigners who don't speak english well. You can also release this anonymously (it's hard for people to deny written exchanges because the results are in many inboxes).
      - eliasmacpherson 5y ago
        Thanks for your advice, but I don't believe in mob 'justice'. I'd rather take it up with the DEI team than the internet! Also on a point of misunderstanding it's not an Americans vs. Foreigners situation.
        dekhn 5y ago
        You will find that the DEI team feels empowered to ignore you. I'm not saying to take advantage of mob justice, just shine a larger light on the facts.
type0 5y ago
Not ironically, that's intended, here's the diversity definition explained for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsVDWuQYzxs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsVDWuQYzxs
- DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
  "New Discourses" is headed by one James Lindsay, of which it is said: > Lindsay is a critic of woke culture Riiiight. > Lindsay announced his intention to vote for Trump in the 2020 election, citing illiberalism on the left as the reason I'm not interested in polemics from people who voted for Trump because they feel the opposition is "illiberal".

op00to 5y ago

It’s not male or female. It’s rude to tell people they are talking wrong.

hopelessattic 5y ago
Personally I find it rude not to provide honest, constructive feedback because it robs me of a chance to learn.