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> It is understood that that limits on freedom of movement are, generally speaking, a bad thing. This doesn't mean they should never be put in place. Yeah. Th

> It is understood that that limits on freedom of movement are, generally speaking, a bad thing. This doesn't mean they should never be put in place. Yeah. The last year and a half has been a foray into the "gray areas" of our freedom that anti-maskers like to pretend doesn't exist. But if you take the argument about free travel to its logical end, we should have open borders between all nations and unrestricted migration. Of course, most of them are not on board with that idea, because one way or another we've agreed that restricting free travel serves the public interest. Covid is another instance where some countries have reached the same consensus.

chii 5y ago
> we should have open borders between all nations and unrestricted migration we should definitely have that. This will single-handedly allow equality of opportunity to be realized. The problem is that most first world countries' people would be worse off under this scheme (with people from under-developed countries being better off).
- spiralx 5y ago
  > This will single-handedly allow equality of opportunity to be realized. In the long-term and not entirely. I wonder what the effect in the short- to medium-term would be on poorer countries who presumably would see a lot more emigration of demographics who have the wealth and/or skills to move somewhere with more opportunity, the "brain drain" effect of the money spent on educating someone and the loss of future tax earnings from their employment is a problem that exists now after all. And again in the short- to medium-term how would unrestricted immigration play out? Immigrants are a net economic benefit to their new countries but does that hold for all amounts of immigration within a given time? It seems to me 500,000 immigrants in a single year is not equivalent to 50,000 immigrants each year over a decade even if in the long run the result is the same. > The problem is that most first world countries' people would be worse off under this scheme (with people from under-developed countries being better off). That's a very zero-sum way of looking at it. Globalisation and free trade have overall made the poorest countries a lot better off while also making the richer ones better off, shouldn't open borders do the same in the long-run? I'm not sure it would be good for countries though, which itself would have knock-on effects... TL;DR open borders and free migration are great, but I can see a shit-load of short-term pain were it to happen!

chii 5y ago

> we should have open borders between all nations and unrestricted migration we should definitely have that. This will single-handedly allow equality of opportunity to be realized. The problem is that most first world countries' people would be worse off under this scheme (with people from under-developed countries being better off).

spiralx 5y ago
> This will single-handedly allow equality of opportunity to be realized. In the long-term and not entirely. I wonder what the effect in the short- to medium-term would be on poorer countries who presumably would see a lot more emigration of demographics who have the wealth and/or skills to move somewhere with more opportunity, the "brain drain" effect of the money spent on educating someone and the loss of future tax earnings from their employment is a problem that exists now after all. And again in the short- to medium-term how would unrestricted immigration play out? Immigrants are a net economic benefit to their new countries but does that hold for all amounts of immigration within a given time? It seems to me 500,000 immigrants in a single year is not equivalent to 50,000 immigrants each year over a decade even if in the long run the result is the same. > The problem is that most first world countries' people would be worse off under this scheme (with people from under-developed countries being better off). That's a very zero-sum way of looking at it. Globalisation and free trade have overall made the poorest countries a lot better off while also making the richer ones better off, shouldn't open borders do the same in the long-run? I'm not sure it would be good for countries though, which itself would have knock-on effects... TL;DR open borders and free migration are great, but I can see a shit-load of short-term pain were it to happen!