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personally given the option between spending 14 days in a fully catered quarantine hotel room, versus spending 14 days in the comfort of my own house with a big

personally given the option between spending 14 days in a fully catered quarantine hotel room, versus spending 14 days in the comfort of my own house with a big backyard, my home office, my workshop and music instruments etc, with only the caveat being I'd have to check-in on a mobile app once a day - it's just not even a choice and I struggle to see how any one would chose a the former as a preferable option. However, if your outrage is actually about a states right to enforce a quarantine on potentially infected incoming travellers during a pandemic fullstop .... well my friend, that's a ship that has long since sailed - literally hundreds of years ago.

chitowneats 5y ago
It's the digital infrastructure you now have in place that is terrifying. If you don't understand how, once these tools are built, they will be abused, I don't know what to tell you, my friend. And yes requiring 14 day mandatory quarantine for interstate travel is insane. The virus is endemic. You all in Australia are struggling in futility against one of the strongest forces of nature, its virome. Most of the rest of the Western world is looking on in horror. Even writers at The Atlantic. Best of luck, though. Sincerely.
- davesmylie 5y ago
  > It's the digital infrastructure you now have in place that is terrifying. If you don't understand how, once these tools are built, they will be abused, I don't know what to tell you, my friend. I can almost guarantee the infrastructure this is running on is USA owned AWS. > You all in Australia are struggling in futility against one of the strongest forces of nature. Well actually, most of the states in oz have delta either under control/trending down towards elimination again, or in the case of tazzy, totally eliminated. It's only NSW that's struggling (which co-incidentally is the state giving people the option of quarantining at home with the use of this app). Personally, I'm from over the ditch in NZ. Our delta cases peaked at 84 a week or so back, down towards 28 today after two weeks of a pretty relaxed lockdown. Most of NZ is now out of the hard lockdown, and probably should be back to normal in another couple of weeks. I'm looking forward to yet another covid free summer, with no worries about masks, crowded sports stadiums and camp grounds or me/anyone I know personally getting the virus. Yup, we're bound to catch it eventually I'm sure, but I'm looking forward to getting it much later when we have better treatments that don't involve horse worming medication. Treatment/mitigation is much better now than it was 18 months ago, and I'm sure in a year or so, it will be better still.
  - nl 5y ago
    > It's only NSW that's struggling (which co-incidentally is the state giving people the option of quarantining at home with the use of this app). Actually it is South Australia, which is COVID free.
  - hilbert42 5y ago
    "It's only NSW that's struggling..." Right! And make sure you do everything possible to keep us out until it's safe. Don't let your politicians do stupid deals with ours that would make things worse for you/NZ (love the place). Yours I'm not sure about but ours are as slimy as they come.
    - Taniwha 5y ago
      well we already did - our current outbreak came from Sydney
  - TheSpiceIsLife 5y ago
    Tasmanian here. Not just NSW, Victoria has officially given up as well. Victorian Premier Dan Andrews said just yesterday covid zero is no longer possible. Tasmania will receive a repatriation flight from the UK next week, 100 people have n to hotel quarantine in Hobart. I won’t be surprised if it leaks in to the community. The vaccines we have are not sterilising. They don’t prevent infection nor transmission, looks like they only reduce the severity and transmission. Australia has definitely lost this fight, the virus will spread to all states, it’s just a matter of time. Quarantine is leaky, people will mit perfectly abide by restrictions.
- hilbert42 5y ago
  I'm in the thick of this lockdown and frankly I'm damn sick of people from one of the most dysfunctional counties on the planet trying to dictate what we do! Sure, we've fucked up many things and day-by-day we're getting better and better at fucking them up, nevertheless we're still eons behind the dizzying heights you Americans have reached. Unlike many Americans, most Australians would prefer to yield to principle than to suicide over it. The pathological notion that your country has for so-called freedoms (which never really existed anyway) is something the world watches with aghast amazement—right, you don't see it as you're in the thick of it but the rest of the world does (the fact that we also speak a form of English is now a source of an embarrassment to us). (And it's now even worse since the Afghanistan fiasco—sorry I mean the Vietnam repeat exercise.) Let's get a few facts straight: clearly you—along with many of your fellow countrymen—haven't a clue about what happened during earlier pandemics in the US. Right, you're clueless about your own US history in respect of previous pandemics or you'd be much more circumspect in your criticism of others. I would strongly suggest that you examine the rules, laws and regulations that were in place in the US during the 1918-20 Spanish Flu pandemic and you'll find that some of them would put anything we've done over here to shame! Go on—do a search, then read and learn! Let me continue: I'd also suggest that you Americans had absolutely no qualms about quarantining Mary Mallon (Typhoid Mary) for decades: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Mallon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Mallon. Her life must have been hell because of her forced incarceration. Your antiquated health system had no proper way of managing her so you just locked her up then let her rot until she died! And more, let me quote "Quarantined for Life: The Tragic History of US Leprosy Colonies - Stripped of their most basic human rights, patients nonetheless built lives and communities": https://www.history.com/news/leprosy-colonies-us-quarantine https://www.history.com/news/leprosy-colonies-us-quarantine. I've nothing to add as the story speaks for itself. There's much more but I've proved my point. Now to the local facts here. The fact that we were not strict enough in policing the disease is the reason that it got away from us. That we let international people in and some damn taxi driver idiot drove an infected aircrew to a hotel without protection started it all. If we'd implemented the strict quarantine measures that we had had in place in 1918-19 for the Spanish Flu then it would not have escaped anywhere near as easily. "Most of the rest of the Western world is looking on in horror. Even writers at The Atlantic." Oh yeah, if most of the rest of the world is looking at us then it's turned away from looking at you out of horror, we're comic relief by comparison. Next factoid: the per capita death rate in the US leapfrogs over ours here in Australia by at least an order of magnitude. Why? Because millions of bloody-mined Americans won't wear masks or get vaccinated out of principle (lunacy). Right, they'd prefer to suffer COVID and likely die rather than to admit they're wrong—very grossly wrong (frankly it's sickening to watch it playing out like a tragic soap opera on our TVs every day—all this from the so-called leader of the free world). Even your president says 'it's now a pandemic of the unvaccinated.' No wonder the Chinese are gloating and laughing themselves sick. If the whole horrible shemozzle weren't so utterly tragic then one would reckon we were watching an episode of the Keystone Cops. Next time, do your research, get your facts right (I know that's a damned hard ask given that in the US the word 'fact' has come to mean anything or utterance that its utterer thinks it ought to be). P.S. Keep the downvotes coming, they're further verifying my points!
- yuushi 5y ago
  It is not endemic in many states in Australia. But please, continue looking on in horror at us from (I'm assuming) America. Your post is a wonderful mix of condescending tone and factual inaccuracy, with the added cherry-on-top that you have absolutely moronic states like Florida "fighting for their freedoms" by banning mask mandates. This would be infuriating if it wasn't so painfully stupid.
  - chitowneats 5y ago
    In the United States, anyone who wants one of three effective vaccines, for free, has been eligible for them for nearly 6 months. Anyone promoting masks as a superior solution to vaccines does not get much traction in most of the country and for good reason. Australia, despite being a wealthy country with strong ties to vaccine manufacturing nations, did not prioritize these vaccines and instead has relied on rolling lockdowns and other invasive measures.
    - nl 5y ago
      > Australia, despite being a wealthy country with strong ties to vaccine manufacturing nations, did not prioritize these vaccines and instead has relied on rolling lockdowns and other invasive measures. I think most people in Australia would strongly agree our vaccine policy was a complete and utter disaster. Probably the most expensive mistake in Australia's history.
    - omegabravo 5y ago
      > instead has relied on rolling lockdowns and other invasive measures. Perhaps I misunderstood your point, but it appears that you are arguing that Australia preferred the option of rolling lockdowns? When you have no vaccines available there are two options. Overload your hospital system or lockdown. Everyone would have preferred having vaccines when the US and the UK received theirs. Furthermore, the state governments that are actually in charge of lockdowns, are not responsible for procuring the vaccines. The federal government were under minor scrutiny for making a mess of that. This reflects the media landscape in Australia that is dominated by NewsCorp.
    - 5y ago
zajio1am 5y ago
> personally given the option between spending 14 days in a fully catered quarantine hotel room, versus spending 14 days in the comfort of my own house with a big backyard, my home office, my workshop and music instruments etc, with only the caveat being I'd have to check-in on a mobile app once a day That is false dilemma. In free society law-abiding citizens are trusted to observe the law even without persistent surveillance. We also do not carry persistent surveillance tool to control whether we do not steal or assault, so why not handle quarantine the same way?
- nl 5y ago
  > We also do not carry persistent surveillance tool to control whether we do not steal or assault, so why not handle quarantine the same way? That's an easy answer. Consequences. When one single person not following the rules can force the entire state into a lockdown (as was the cause in NSW) the trade off makes a lot of sense.
- actually_a_dog 5y ago
  > That is false dilemma. In free society law-abiding citizens are trusted to observe the law even without persistent surveillance. That's the problem. People are not obeying the law.
  - perryizgr8 5y ago
    Then catch those people and prosecute them. Why harass innocent people?
    - actually_a_dog 5y ago
      How exactly do you propose to do that?
      - perryizgr8 5y ago
        Isn't that the entire job of the police? Are they unable to do their job suddenly?
verygoodname 5y ago
> it's just not even a choice and I struggle to see how any one would chose a the former as a preferable option. What if you do not possess a smartphone? What choice do you have, then? Are you just forced into hotel quarantine or do they lend you a smartphone? (Genuine question.)
- NamTaf 5y ago
  I'm guessing, but they will probably do police visits periodically as they do with existing home quarantine (i.e. if you're a close contact of a case).
- himinlomax 5y ago
  If you have the means to travel far enough to be subjected to quarantine, you have the means to spend $100 on a phone.
  - RalfWausE 5y ago
    You may have the MEANS... but is a smartphone MANDATORY? I have the means to travel abroad, no problem, but never in my mind i would voluntarily own a smartphone.
    - danielheath 5y ago
      No, it's not mandatory. You can quarantine in a hotel.
      - RalfWausE 5y ago
        Then i would prefer the hotel... visible chains are better than invisible ones.
        danielheath 5y ago
        Sure. Hotel quarantine is the default. If you prefer, you are also able to use the app and stay home.
mns 5y ago
Yes, I'm sure that everyone is able to afford the luxury of a big backyard, a home office, a workshop and music instruments. As a person that had to stay in quarantine for going back home for the last weeks of my mothers life due terminal cancer, I had to stay 10 days locked in my home, even having countless tests, not even knowing if she would be alive and being told that they can make an exception for the funeral - so kind of them. We were treated like some sub-human criminals by the police, being called and checked (some friends who had their daughters coming from university back home had to come to the window every morning, all 4 members of the family to get "counted" by a police officer). What's funny is that 1 year before the pandemic my house was broken into, never heard back from the police, but it's good to see that they are doing their job in checking up on us, the virus criminals.
nevermindiguess 5y ago
Even house arrest is from the comfort of your home.

chitowneats 5y ago

It's the digital infrastructure you now have in place that is terrifying. If you don't understand how, once these tools are built, they will be abused, I don't know what to tell you, my friend. And yes requiring 14 day mandatory quarantine for interstate travel is insane. The virus is endemic. You all in Australia are struggling in futility against one of the strongest forces of nature, its virome. Most of the rest of the Western world is looking on in horror. Even writers at The Atlantic. Best of luck, though. Sincerely.

davesmylie 5y ago
> It's the digital infrastructure you now have in place that is terrifying. If you don't understand how, once these tools are built, they will be abused, I don't know what to tell you, my friend. I can almost guarantee the infrastructure this is running on is USA owned AWS. > You all in Australia are struggling in futility against one of the strongest forces of nature. Well actually, most of the states in oz have delta either under control/trending down towards elimination again, or in the case of tazzy, totally eliminated. It's only NSW that's struggling (which co-incidentally is the state giving people the option of quarantining at home with the use of this app). Personally, I'm from over the ditch in NZ. Our delta cases peaked at 84 a week or so back, down towards 28 today after two weeks of a pretty relaxed lockdown. Most of NZ is now out of the hard lockdown, and probably should be back to normal in another couple of weeks. I'm looking forward to yet another covid free summer, with no worries about masks, crowded sports stadiums and camp grounds or me/anyone I know personally getting the virus. Yup, we're bound to catch it eventually I'm sure, but I'm looking forward to getting it much later when we have better treatments that don't involve horse worming medication. Treatment/mitigation is much better now than it was 18 months ago, and I'm sure in a year or so, it will be better still.
- nl 5y ago
  > It's only NSW that's struggling (which co-incidentally is the state giving people the option of quarantining at home with the use of this app). Actually it is South Australia, which is COVID free.
- hilbert42 5y ago
  "It's only NSW that's struggling..." Right! And make sure you do everything possible to keep us out until it's safe. Don't let your politicians do stupid deals with ours that would make things worse for you/NZ (love the place). Yours I'm not sure about but ours are as slimy as they come.
  - Taniwha 5y ago
    well we already did - our current outbreak came from Sydney
- TheSpiceIsLife 5y ago
  Tasmanian here. Not just NSW, Victoria has officially given up as well. Victorian Premier Dan Andrews said just yesterday covid zero is no longer possible. Tasmania will receive a repatriation flight from the UK next week, 100 people have n to hotel quarantine in Hobart. I won’t be surprised if it leaks in to the community. The vaccines we have are not sterilising. They don’t prevent infection nor transmission, looks like they only reduce the severity and transmission. Australia has definitely lost this fight, the virus will spread to all states, it’s just a matter of time. Quarantine is leaky, people will mit perfectly abide by restrictions.
hilbert42 5y ago
I'm in the thick of this lockdown and frankly I'm damn sick of people from one of the most dysfunctional counties on the planet trying to dictate what we do! Sure, we've fucked up many things and day-by-day we're getting better and better at fucking them up, nevertheless we're still eons behind the dizzying heights you Americans have reached. Unlike many Americans, most Australians would prefer to yield to principle than to suicide over it. The pathological notion that your country has for so-called freedoms (which never really existed anyway) is something the world watches with aghast amazement—right, you don't see it as you're in the thick of it but the rest of the world does (the fact that we also speak a form of English is now a source of an embarrassment to us). (And it's now even worse since the Afghanistan fiasco—sorry I mean the Vietnam repeat exercise.) Let's get a few facts straight: clearly you—along with many of your fellow countrymen—haven't a clue about what happened during earlier pandemics in the US. Right, you're clueless about your own US history in respect of previous pandemics or you'd be much more circumspect in your criticism of others. I would strongly suggest that you examine the rules, laws and regulations that were in place in the US during the 1918-20 Spanish Flu pandemic and you'll find that some of them would put anything we've done over here to shame! Go on—do a search, then read and learn! Let me continue: I'd also suggest that you Americans had absolutely no qualms about quarantining Mary Mallon (Typhoid Mary) for decades: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Mallon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Mallon. Her life must have been hell because of her forced incarceration. Your antiquated health system had no proper way of managing her so you just locked her up then let her rot until she died! And more, let me quote "Quarantined for Life: The Tragic History of US Leprosy Colonies - Stripped of their most basic human rights, patients nonetheless built lives and communities": https://www.history.com/news/leprosy-colonies-us-quarantine https://www.history.com/news/leprosy-colonies-us-quarantine. I've nothing to add as the story speaks for itself. There's much more but I've proved my point. Now to the local facts here. The fact that we were not strict enough in policing the disease is the reason that it got away from us. That we let international people in and some damn taxi driver idiot drove an infected aircrew to a hotel without protection started it all. If we'd implemented the strict quarantine measures that we had had in place in 1918-19 for the Spanish Flu then it would not have escaped anywhere near as easily. "Most of the rest of the Western world is looking on in horror. Even writers at The Atlantic." Oh yeah, if most of the rest of the world is looking at us then it's turned away from looking at you out of horror, we're comic relief by comparison. Next factoid: the per capita death rate in the US leapfrogs over ours here in Australia by at least an order of magnitude. Why? Because millions of bloody-mined Americans won't wear masks or get vaccinated out of principle (lunacy). Right, they'd prefer to suffer COVID and likely die rather than to admit they're wrong—very grossly wrong (frankly it's sickening to watch it playing out like a tragic soap opera on our TVs every day—all this from the so-called leader of the free world). Even your president says 'it's now a pandemic of the unvaccinated.' No wonder the Chinese are gloating and laughing themselves sick. If the whole horrible shemozzle weren't so utterly tragic then one would reckon we were watching an episode of the Keystone Cops. Next time, do your research, get your facts right (I know that's a damned hard ask given that in the US the word 'fact' has come to mean anything or utterance that its utterer thinks it ought to be). P.S. Keep the downvotes coming, they're further verifying my points!
yuushi 5y ago
It is not endemic in many states in Australia. But please, continue looking on in horror at us from (I'm assuming) America. Your post is a wonderful mix of condescending tone and factual inaccuracy, with the added cherry-on-top that you have absolutely moronic states like Florida "fighting for their freedoms" by banning mask mandates. This would be infuriating if it wasn't so painfully stupid.
- chitowneats 5y ago
  In the United States, anyone who wants one of three effective vaccines, for free, has been eligible for them for nearly 6 months. Anyone promoting masks as a superior solution to vaccines does not get much traction in most of the country and for good reason. Australia, despite being a wealthy country with strong ties to vaccine manufacturing nations, did not prioritize these vaccines and instead has relied on rolling lockdowns and other invasive measures.
  - nl 5y ago
    > Australia, despite being a wealthy country with strong ties to vaccine manufacturing nations, did not prioritize these vaccines and instead has relied on rolling lockdowns and other invasive measures. I think most people in Australia would strongly agree our vaccine policy was a complete and utter disaster. Probably the most expensive mistake in Australia's history.
  - omegabravo 5y ago
    > instead has relied on rolling lockdowns and other invasive measures. Perhaps I misunderstood your point, but it appears that you are arguing that Australia preferred the option of rolling lockdowns? When you have no vaccines available there are two options. Overload your hospital system or lockdown. Everyone would have preferred having vaccines when the US and the UK received theirs. Furthermore, the state governments that are actually in charge of lockdowns, are not responsible for procuring the vaccines. The federal government were under minor scrutiny for making a mess of that. This reflects the media landscape in Australia that is dominated by NewsCorp.
  - 5y ago

zajio1am 5y ago

> personally given the option between spending 14 days in a fully catered quarantine hotel room, versus spending 14 days in the comfort of my own house with a big backyard, my home office, my workshop and music instruments etc, with only the caveat being I'd have to check-in on a mobile app once a day That is false dilemma. In free society law-abiding citizens are trusted to observe the law even without persistent surveillance. We also do not carry persistent surveillance tool to control whether we do not steal or assault, so why not handle quarantine the same way?

nl 5y ago
> We also do not carry persistent surveillance tool to control whether we do not steal or assault, so why not handle quarantine the same way? That's an easy answer. Consequences. When one single person not following the rules can force the entire state into a lockdown (as was the cause in NSW) the trade off makes a lot of sense.
actually_a_dog 5y ago
> That is false dilemma. In free society law-abiding citizens are trusted to observe the law even without persistent surveillance. That's the problem. People are not obeying the law.
- perryizgr8 5y ago
  Then catch those people and prosecute them. Why harass innocent people?
  - actually_a_dog 5y ago
    How exactly do you propose to do that?
    - perryizgr8 5y ago
      Isn't that the entire job of the police? Are they unable to do their job suddenly?

verygoodname 5y ago

> it's just not even a choice and I struggle to see how any one would chose a the former as a preferable option. What if you do not possess a smartphone? What choice do you have, then? Are you just forced into hotel quarantine or do they lend you a smartphone? (Genuine question.)

NamTaf 5y ago
I'm guessing, but they will probably do police visits periodically as they do with existing home quarantine (i.e. if you're a close contact of a case).
himinlomax 5y ago
If you have the means to travel far enough to be subjected to quarantine, you have the means to spend $100 on a phone.
- RalfWausE 5y ago
  You may have the MEANS... but is a smartphone MANDATORY? I have the means to travel abroad, no problem, but never in my mind i would voluntarily own a smartphone.
  - danielheath 5y ago
    No, it's not mandatory. You can quarantine in a hotel.
    - RalfWausE 5y ago
      Then i would prefer the hotel... visible chains are better than invisible ones.
      - danielheath 5y ago
        Sure. Hotel quarantine is the default. If you prefer, you are also able to use the app and stay home.

mns 5y ago

Yes, I'm sure that everyone is able to afford the luxury of a big backyard, a home office, a workshop and music instruments. As a person that had to stay in quarantine for going back home for the last weeks of my mothers life due terminal cancer, I had to stay 10 days locked in my home, even having countless tests, not even knowing if she would be alive and being told that they can make an exception for the funeral - so kind of them. We were treated like some sub-human criminals by the police, being called and checked (some friends who had their daughters coming from university back home had to come to the window every morning, all 4 members of the family to get "counted" by a police officer). What's funny is that 1 year before the pandemic my house was broken into, never heard back from the police, but it's good to see that they are doing their job in checking up on us, the virus criminals.

nevermindiguess 5y ago

Even house arrest is from the comfort of your home.