7 ms·

We don't even have to build up that much to add a lot more housing. If San Francisco was the density of Paris, it would have over twice as many people and most

We don't even have to build up that much to add a lot more housing. If San Francisco was the density of Paris, it would have over twice as many people and most of Paris has 5-7 story buildings tops.

vlovich123 5y ago
Parts of the city have very different densities. I wonder how individual neighborhoods stack up as I suspect the sprawl in the Sunset, Presidio, and parts of the Marina, and various industrial sections are what bring down the averages.
- lmeyerov 5y ago
  Mission is the densest after ~downtown. Main drags and outskirts are switching to 4+1 (progress!) but most of it remains 2-3. So even there, still a lot possible well before skyscrapers. Though rent control is double edged: needed to keep folks housed, but also prevents rebuilding. Interestingly, mission bay ucsf campus made a bunch of big buildings, so would seem consistent to add corresponding housing. Though expensive/dangerous..
  - vlovich123 5y ago
    Yeah so Mission and Downtown both have densities greater than the mean Paris population density. Certainly improving density in the outer boroughs is probably a smarter decision but those areas also aren’t where SF builds the larger buildings and likely where the NYMBism will be strongest.
acchow 5y ago
How do you propose San Francisco adds 2 extra stories to most Victorians in the city? What would this process even look like? How do you get homeowners to do this and who would pay for it? Where would we even get the engineering and construction expertise to do this? You would call an endeavor like this not building “that much”?
- eloff 5y ago
  It's called rezoning them and letting the market handle it. Land value explodes, owners sell, developers bulldoze and build apartments. You only have to do three things. Rezone, expedite permits, and encourage investment dollars to flow into development. Sadly most cities that have this problem are failing on all three counts.
  - numbsafari 5y ago
    Which, more or less, is exactly how Paris became Paris. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann%27s_renovation_of_Paris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann%27s_renovation_of_Pa...
- graeme 5y ago
  Rezone the area, allow houses to be bought and redeveloped into denser housing. Destroy or move the victorian houses, preserve any of especially notable significance. The payment and expertise is the easy part, if the law allows it. The hard part emotionally is allowing the city to change. But any growing city has destroyed much of what came before. Manhattan has been a city for hundreds of years, current buildings were not what was there before.
- OneEyedRobot 5y ago
  >How do you propose San Francisco adds 2 extra stories to most Victorians in the city? No problem. Tear them down and build a bunch of Soviet apartment blocks.
  - CuriouslyC 5y ago
    I suppose it's either that or have streets and jails littered with homeless people
- tick_tock_tick 5y ago
  They don't need to do anything to most of the city just let people build skyscrapper the whole length of missionbay to the end of the dogpatch. Every empty warehouse could be a massive amount of high density.
Tiereven 5y ago
A lot of voices are encouraging building cities up and increasing density. As a father with young kids, high-density urban living, with a young family crammed into an apartment does not seem like the ingredients for a healthy childhood; but I admit, that's not how I grew up. How does more high-density housing create an environment where the next generation can grow up in health and safety?
- phendrenad2 5y ago
  Thst's just begging the question. We'll need to see some studies on the impact of living "crammed" into an apartment.
  - chii 5y ago
    there already exists cities like that - see hong kong for example. Or tokyo. Their kids turned out normal - as far as i can tell anyway.
- angio 5y ago
  Dense cities usually have nice communal spaces that kids can use to play and socialize.
- Jochim 5y ago
  High density doesn't mean only building housing. You can build housing around a large park that gives children a safe place to play and explore. Shops within walking distance allow them to experience some responsibility running an errand or to buy themselves a treat with pocket money. At least in my opinion urban living with a sensible balance of retail/nature/housing offers children much more independence than they'd get in the suburbs where they rely entirely on their parents to get anywhere.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
lurker137 5y ago
The new

We don't even have to build up that much to add a lot more housing. If San Francisco was the density of Paris, it would have over twice as many people and most of Paris has 5-7 story buildings tops.

vlovich123 5y ago

Parts of the city have very different densities. I wonder how individual neighborhoods stack up as I suspect the sprawl in the Sunset, Presidio, and parts of the Marina, and various industrial sections are what bring down the averages.

lmeyerov 5y ago
Mission is the densest after ~downtown. Main drags and outskirts are switching to 4+1 (progress!) but most of it remains 2-3. So even there, still a lot possible well before skyscrapers. Though rent control is double edged: needed to keep folks housed, but also prevents rebuilding. Interestingly, mission bay ucsf campus made a bunch of big buildings, so would seem consistent to add corresponding housing. Though expensive/dangerous..
- vlovich123 5y ago
  Yeah so Mission and Downtown both have densities greater than the mean Paris population density. Certainly improving density in the outer boroughs is probably a smarter decision but those areas also aren’t where SF builds the larger buildings and likely where the NYMBism will be strongest.

acchow 5y ago

How do you propose San Francisco adds 2 extra stories to most Victorians in the city? What would this process even look like? How do you get homeowners to do this and who would pay for it? Where would we even get the engineering and construction expertise to do this? You would call an endeavor like this not building “that much”?

eloff 5y ago
It's called rezoning them and letting the market handle it. Land value explodes, owners sell, developers bulldoze and build apartments. You only have to do three things. Rezone, expedite permits, and encourage investment dollars to flow into development. Sadly most cities that have this problem are failing on all three counts.
- numbsafari 5y ago
  Which, more or less, is exactly how Paris became Paris. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann%27s_renovation_of_Paris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann%27s_renovation_of_Pa...
graeme 5y ago
Rezone the area, allow houses to be bought and redeveloped into denser housing. Destroy or move the victorian houses, preserve any of especially notable significance. The payment and expertise is the easy part, if the law allows it. The hard part emotionally is allowing the city to change. But any growing city has destroyed much of what came before. Manhattan has been a city for hundreds of years, current buildings were not what was there before.
OneEyedRobot 5y ago
>How do you propose San Francisco adds 2 extra stories to most Victorians in the city? No problem. Tear them down and build a bunch of Soviet apartment blocks.
- CuriouslyC 5y ago
  I suppose it's either that or have streets and jails littered with homeless people
tick_tock_tick 5y ago
They don't need to do anything to most of the city just let people build skyscrapper the whole length of missionbay to the end of the dogpatch. Every empty warehouse could be a massive amount of high density.

Tiereven 5y ago

A lot of voices are encouraging building cities up and increasing density. As a father with young kids, high-density urban living, with a young family crammed into an apartment does not seem like the ingredients for a healthy childhood; but I admit, that's not how I grew up. How does more high-density housing create an environment where the next generation can grow up in health and safety?

phendrenad2 5y ago
Thst's just begging the question. We'll need to see some studies on the impact of living "crammed" into an apartment.
- chii 5y ago
  there already exists cities like that - see hong kong for example. Or tokyo. Their kids turned out normal - as far as i can tell anyway.
angio 5y ago
Dense cities usually have nice communal spaces that kids can use to play and socialize.
Jochim 5y ago
High density doesn't mean only building housing. You can build housing around a large park that gives children a safe place to play and explore. Shops within walking distance allow them to experience some responsibility running an errand or to buy themselves a treat with pocket money. At least in my opinion urban living with a sensible balance of retail/nature/housing offers children much more independence than they'd get in the suburbs where they rely entirely on their parents to get anywhere.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

lurker137 5y ago

The new