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None of these death rates is high enough to even begin thinking about overturning the order of society. Safety is not the only goal. Over-emphasizing the value

None of these death rates is high enough to even begin thinking about overturning the order of society. Safety is not the only goal. Over-emphasizing the value of "safety" is at the root of many seemingly-unrelated areas of societal dysfunction over the past decade. We've turned into a timid, fearful people eager to be controlled. Life is for living. I would not in a million years trade Australia's restrictions for those of the United States just to exchange Australia's death rate with that of the US, and it's hard to imagine that any reasonable, well-adjusted person would want to do that.

chii 5y ago
> I would not in a million years trade Australia's restrictions for those of the United States just to exchange Australia's death rate with that of the US so tell me if you know personally anyone who has died? What if that trade includes someone from your family? Does your tune suddenly change if the lack of restrictions would affect you? All i hear is that you feel you don't want to make any sacrifices, because it only benefits somebody else.
- quotemstr 5y ago
  Every year, 37,000 Americans die in automobile accidents, yet we don't set the country's speed limit at 25mph even though doing that would save most of those 37,000 lives. We tolerate --- even demand --- higher speed limits because the time saved by driving faster outweighs the additional deaths caused. It may sound callous to put the trade-off in those terms, but it's true. And I bet you, personally, would absolutely hate it you weren't able to drive more than 25mph ever. Why should COVID be different? When you optimize for "safety" to the exclusion of all other considerations, you create a dystopia. A non-zero number of COVID deaths is a fair price for restoring our society to normality. The weird refusal of people to apply cost-benefit analysis to COVID mitigation is gravely concerning. Without cost-benefit analysis, we can't make good decisions.
  - chii 5y ago
    so where is your evidence that the cost-benefit-analysis of covid deaths is in the favour of opening up? We don't drive above 25mph because there is already cost benefit analysis done, at the governmental transportation department level. The average person assumes this analysis is mostly correct, and thus agree (implicitly) to follow the rules. How come all of a sudden, people stop believing that such analysis wasn't done for the actions undertaken for lockdown? How come, conveniently, that people who oppose such lockdown are claiming that their preferred option - that of opening up - is somehow a better trade?
  - tendimensions 5y ago
    It's a false comparison for two reasons: 1) You leave out the long list of ways we've tried very, very hard to make driving as safe as possible while not sacrificing the entire point of the car, to get somewhere faster. There is a trade off, but the equation isn't nearly as callous as you make it seem. 2) The equation for Covid isn't "live free or die" either. There's a lot of middle ground that mostly involves taking up limited medical resources for something that could have been avoided while still conducting your normal day to day activities with some minor modifications. That trade-off is a simple one.
grecy 5y ago
> I would not in a million years trade Australia's restrictions for those of the United States just to exchange Australia's death rate with that of the US. it's hard to imagine that any reasonable, well-adjusted person would want to do that. 45,000 people in Australia are alive right now who would be dead if Australia had the USA's death rate. I'm quite sure the family and friends of every single one of those 45,000 people strongly disagree with you.

chii 5y ago

> I would not in a million years trade Australia's restrictions for those of the United States just to exchange Australia's death rate with that of the US so tell me if you know personally anyone who has died? What if that trade includes someone from your family? Does your tune suddenly change if the lack of restrictions would affect you? All i hear is that you feel you don't want to make any sacrifices, because it only benefits somebody else.

quotemstr 5y ago
Every year, 37,000 Americans die in automobile accidents, yet we don't set the country's speed limit at 25mph even though doing that would save most of those 37,000 lives. We tolerate --- even demand --- higher speed limits because the time saved by driving faster outweighs the additional deaths caused. It may sound callous to put the trade-off in those terms, but it's true. And I bet you, personally, would absolutely hate it you weren't able to drive more than 25mph ever. Why should COVID be different? When you optimize for "safety" to the exclusion of all other considerations, you create a dystopia. A non-zero number of COVID deaths is a fair price for restoring our society to normality. The weird refusal of people to apply cost-benefit analysis to COVID mitigation is gravely concerning. Without cost-benefit analysis, we can't make good decisions.
- chii 5y ago
  so where is your evidence that the cost-benefit-analysis of covid deaths is in the favour of opening up? We don't drive above 25mph because there is already cost benefit analysis done, at the governmental transportation department level. The average person assumes this analysis is mostly correct, and thus agree (implicitly) to follow the rules. How come all of a sudden, people stop believing that such analysis wasn't done for the actions undertaken for lockdown? How come, conveniently, that people who oppose such lockdown are claiming that their preferred option - that of opening up - is somehow a better trade?
- tendimensions 5y ago
  It's a false comparison for two reasons: 1) You leave out the long list of ways we've tried very, very hard to make driving as safe as possible while not sacrificing the entire point of the car, to get somewhere faster. There is a trade off, but the equation isn't nearly as callous as you make it seem. 2) The equation for Covid isn't "live free or die" either. There's a lot of middle ground that mostly involves taking up limited medical resources for something that could have been avoided while still conducting your normal day to day activities with some minor modifications. That trade-off is a simple one.

grecy 5y ago

> I would not in a million years trade Australia's restrictions for those of the United States just to exchange Australia's death rate with that of the US. it's hard to imagine that any reasonable, well-adjusted person would want to do that. 45,000 people in Australia are alive right now who would be dead if Australia had the USA's death rate. I'm quite sure the family and friends of every single one of those 45,000 people strongly disagree with you.