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There are systems that can detect stationary objects, Tesla does not want to use those more reliable systems, so they use the programming methodology of tweakin

There are systems that can detect stationary objects, Tesla does not want to use those more reliable systems, so they use the programming methodology of tweaking tweaking the code when a bug appears and hope that was the last one. Sure some AI gurus will claim that humans can detect this objects only with 2 eyes but they forget to mention that behind those 2 eyes is a brain an actual intelligence that is aware of the world and it's place in the world. So if you can't create an actual intelligence then at least put the effort in feeding correct data into your AI and remove the line of code "if static object ignore because too hard to detect if is a truck or a shadow/paper bag/sign"

amelius 5y ago
> tweaking the code when a bug appears and hope that was the last one Tesla should also be prohibited from pushing updates. When the software is updated, the code should be tested for at least X thousand miles and X months before a new version may be pushed. Letting an authority do the pushing avoids the temptation of manufacturers to push updates prematurely. It also solves the problem of unexpected changes for the user at random times. If safety issues are detected, the automobile (or at least the autopilot) should be disabled until the code has been fixed and fully tested.
SerLava 5y ago
Yeah they want a low unit cost on the camera system, so they are trying to machine learn their way out of the problem. It's not going to work. A self driving system needs to have a 3d understanding of it's environment. It's not acceptable to crash into paintings by Wile E. Coyote.
- simion314 5y ago
  From what I understand there is also some code that is there to ignore static objects because maybe are signs or bridges and the AI is too stupid. So you have bad sensors with bad code combo.
  - SerLava 5y ago
    Yeah it's essentially impossible for the system to be good- the limitations force other limitations.
nilstycho 5y ago
> There are systems that can detect stationary objects, Tesla does not want to use those more reliable systems What systems are you referring to? Lidar and radar systems can't reliably detect stationary objects as hazards, because most of the world is stationary and consequently gets filtered out.
- simion314 5y ago
  Filtering out is the problem that develoeprs/engineers should solve right? I can't accept the idea that the car can hit a wall because "our devs are too incompetent or we are to cheap to use better hardware" , a wall or a truck does not look like a bridge or a shadow or a sign, if the AI is too stupid then is not ready, even if is better then a drunk teen that drives a 15 years old car in some very specific situations. The lidar/radar detects the objects the AI should label them and decide, if it can't do it then throw more video cards at it and more training or find some competent people that could use more deterministic code to reduce the complexity before the AI attempts to run.
  - nilstycho 5y ago
    Yes, in principle there are systems that could detect stationary hazards. But as far as I'm aware the best lidar and radar approaches are currently no better than Tesla's RGB approach. It seems that the AI is much more important than the sensor.
    - camjohnson26 5y ago
      No Waymo car has crashed into an emergency vehicle yet.
      - nilstycho 5y ago
        Waymo has driven 20 million miles. Autopilot has driven (about) 4 billion miles.
    - simion314 5y ago

amelius 5y ago

> tweaking the code when a bug appears and hope that was the last one Tesla should also be prohibited from pushing updates. When the software is updated, the code should be tested for at least X thousand miles and X months before a new version may be pushed. Letting an authority do the pushing avoids the temptation of manufacturers to push updates prematurely. It also solves the problem of unexpected changes for the user at random times. If safety issues are detected, the automobile (or at least the autopilot) should be disabled until the code has been fixed and fully tested.

SerLava 5y ago

Yeah they want a low unit cost on the camera system, so they are trying to machine learn their way out of the problem. It's not going to work. A self driving system needs to have a 3d understanding of it's environment. It's not acceptable to crash into paintings by Wile E. Coyote.

simion314 5y ago
From what I understand there is also some code that is there to ignore static objects because maybe are signs or bridges and the AI is too stupid. So you have bad sensors with bad code combo.
- SerLava 5y ago
  Yeah it's essentially impossible for the system to be good- the limitations force other limitations.

nilstycho 5y ago

> There are systems that can detect stationary objects, Tesla does not want to use those more reliable systems What systems are you referring to? Lidar and radar systems can't reliably detect stationary objects as hazards, because most of the world is stationary and consequently gets filtered out.

simion314 5y ago
Filtering out is the problem that develoeprs/engineers should solve right? I can't accept the idea that the car can hit a wall because "our devs are too incompetent or we are to cheap to use better hardware" , a wall or a truck does not look like a bridge or a shadow or a sign, if the AI is too stupid then is not ready, even if is better then a drunk teen that drives a 15 years old car in some very specific situations. The lidar/radar detects the objects the AI should label them and decide, if it can't do it then throw more video cards at it and more training or find some competent people that could use more deterministic code to reduce the complexity before the AI attempts to run.
- nilstycho 5y ago
  Yes, in principle there are systems that could detect stationary hazards. But as far as I'm aware the best lidar and radar approaches are currently no better than Tesla's RGB approach. It seems that the AI is much more important than the sensor.
  - camjohnson26 5y ago
    No Waymo car has crashed into an emergency vehicle yet.
    - nilstycho 5y ago
      Waymo has driven 20 million miles. Autopilot has driven (about) 4 billion miles.
  - simion314 5y ago