3 ms·

> Finland has the best education system on Earth, bar none I don't think there's a single university in Finland in even the top 100 is there?

disgruntledphd2 5y ago
The university rankings one sees are massively, massively skewed by the US & the UK, because they have always written in English, and set up most of the popular (i.e. English speaking) journals. I dug into these rankings years ago, and found them very, very unconvincing. The OECD rankings (where Finland does really well) tend to be much more robust.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > The university rankings one sees are massively, massively skewed by the US & the UK, because they have always written in English, and set up most of the popular (i.e. English speaking) journals. Doesn't seem to be a problem for the Chinese or Singaporeans?
  - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
    Under which ranking? Like, it would be surprising if China (1.1bn people) wasn't doing reasonably well (though most of their growth has occurred since they started publishing in English language journals). Singapore has one university, right? That, along with the 8mn driven people they have along with former english colonialism would seem to be germane to my points above.
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      What about Switzerland? Comparable population more or less, outside of the anglosphere. Three universities in the QS top 100. Really difficult to argue 'best bar none' I think.
      - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
        Thank you for finally providing which ranking you are using. Their methodology is briefly described here: https://www.topuniversities.com/qs-world-university-rankings/methodology https://www.topuniversities.com/qs-world-university-rankings... So, the proportion of international students and faculty (which account for 20% of the rankings) will massively bias the rankings towards English speaking universities, because more people study abroad in English. Additionally, the academic & employer surveys are biased by the fact that name recognition is much, much higher for older universities, so it's likely that they will be perceived as being better in the absence of any real differences. Nonetheless, when people say that Finland has the best education system in the world, they are referring to the OECD data. You're the one trying to use university rankings as a proxy for this, when it should be clear that primary & secondary education are much more important from a population perspective. Additionally, students in Finnish universities are paid to be there, and may also be provided with housing. That's a much better deal than one would get at Oxford/Cambridge/MIT.
AussieWog93 5y ago
Not to comment negatively on Finland's university system, but when I wrote my comment on "the best education system in the world", I specifically had primary and secondary school in mind.

disgruntledphd2 5y ago

The university rankings one sees are massively, massively skewed by the US & the UK, because they have always written in English, and set up most of the popular (i.e. English speaking) journals. I dug into these rankings years ago, and found them very, very unconvincing. The OECD rankings (where Finland does really well) tend to be much more robust.

chrisseaton 5y ago
> The university rankings one sees are massively, massively skewed by the US & the UK, because they have always written in English, and set up most of the popular (i.e. English speaking) journals. Doesn't seem to be a problem for the Chinese or Singaporeans?
- disgruntledphd2 5y ago
  Under which ranking? Like, it would be surprising if China (1.1bn people) wasn't doing reasonably well (though most of their growth has occurred since they started publishing in English language journals). Singapore has one university, right? That, along with the 8mn driven people they have along with former english colonialism would seem to be germane to my points above.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    What about Switzerland? Comparable population more or less, outside of the anglosphere. Three universities in the QS top 100. Really difficult to argue 'best bar none' I think.
    - disgruntledphd2 5y ago
      Thank you for finally providing which ranking you are using. Their methodology is briefly described here: https://www.topuniversities.com/qs-world-university-rankings/methodology https://www.topuniversities.com/qs-world-university-rankings... So, the proportion of international students and faculty (which account for 20% of the rankings) will massively bias the rankings towards English speaking universities, because more people study abroad in English. Additionally, the academic & employer surveys are biased by the fact that name recognition is much, much higher for older universities, so it's likely that they will be perceived as being better in the absence of any real differences. Nonetheless, when people say that Finland has the best education system in the world, they are referring to the OECD data. You're the one trying to use university rankings as a proxy for this, when it should be clear that primary & secondary education are much more important from a population perspective. Additionally, students in Finnish universities are paid to be there, and may also be provided with housing. That's a much better deal than one would get at Oxford/Cambridge/MIT.

AussieWog93 5y ago

Not to comment negatively on Finland's university system, but when I wrote my comment on "the best education system in the world", I specifically had primary and secondary school in mind.