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Joe Rogan Has Covid
- nomel 5y ago> a deworming veterinary drug that the Food and Drug Administration This is absolutely false/misleading [1], and I don't understand why it's so present in the news (tabloids?) right now. 1. See 13th word: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin
- melling 5y agoThese sort of headlines seem dangerous. People skipping vaccines because they think we have a treatment “Joe Rogan says he's contracted coronavirus, is treating it with ivermectin” https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/joe-rogan-contracted-coronavirus-treating-ivermectin https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/joe-rogan-contracted-c...
- nomel 5y agoI don't like the idea of justifying misinformation to combat misinformation/misunderstanding.
- melling 5y agoNeither do I. I’m simply trying to point out that people believing that can treat themselves with unproven drugs and skipping vaccines … Anyway, a thousand Americans will die today, mostly unvaccinated. I sure hope people figure it out soon.
- verdverm 5y agoRogan got the vaccine and most likely has a medical prescription for Ivermectin, wouldn't be surprised if he's taking more than Ivermectin. Probably basing his treatment protocol on Pierre Kory's work. Also, for context: https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/covid-19-continues-to-be-a-leading-cause-of-death-in-the-u-s-in-june-2021/ https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/covid-19-continues...
- melling 5y agoCan anyone bring everyone else up to speed on Ivermectin? I’m not finding anything beyond opinions https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Kory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Kory
- angelzen 5y ago* TL;DR Vaccines vs. Ivermectin, in two pictures. Vaccines work, Ivermectin weakly moves the needle (maybe). https://twitter.com/andrewdouglass/status/1336336003498352645 https://twitter.com/andrewdouglass/status/133633600349835264... https://www.medrxiv.org/content/medrxiv/early/2021/01/06/2021.01.05.21249131/F3.large.jpg https://www.medrxiv.org/content/medrxiv/early/2021/01/06/202... ===== * The Pierre Kory paper that started it all: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823. Pierre is a front-line clinician that fights to figure out how to treat symptomatic patients, thus he has understandable biases. * The Tess Lowrie metastudy claiming clinical properties: https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/fulltext/2021/08000/ivermectin_for_prevention_and_treatment_of.7.aspx https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/fulltext/2021/... The effects mostly vanished when an Egyptian study was proven to use false data. * There is a pre-covid body of work documenting anti-viral properties of Ivermectin. * There is a pre-covid body of work documenting anti-inflammatory properties of Ivermectin. * There is a wide body of work documenting safety of Ivermectin in humans. The 2015 Nobel prize in medicine was awarded for the discovery of Ivermectin. * There is some credible work that documents Ivermectin have some small effect in decreasing covid severity. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28351973 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28351973 for some links. But there is other credible work that says it has no effect. * There are some claims that introducing Ivermectin in a geographical area (some Indian states) correlates with a rapid decline of a covid epidemic outbreak. Alas, covid epidemic outbursts are spike shaped, so it is hard to say if Ivermectin had an effect or the outburst flamed out naturally. * Some tropical countries where Ivermectin is routinely prescribed had low rates of sever covid outbreaks. This led some to believe Ivermectin has a hand in it. Alas, the age pyramid in those countries is leans young vs. age pyramid in the rest of the world leaning old. Given that covid is orders of magnitudes less dangerous for young people, this by itself explains disparities in covid severity outbreaks. * There is a number of bulls**t websites that do 'meta-analyses' from low credibility poorly cited sources. Ignore. * There is a ridiculously acrimonious Twitter fight between 'Ivermectin is a horse medicine that kills grandma' and 'Ivermectin is a covid-erasing magic wand' camps. I shudder at the hell a poor soul that wants to research 'there appears to be a weak signal in Ivermectin against covid, let's investigate deeper' must go through.
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- nabla9 5y agoThere are two forms. Those sold without prescribed are not for human use. Lower quality, different dose etc. People are buying those and getting very sick.
- nomel 5y agoYes, but there is exactly one medication/molecule we call Ivermectin. You're talking about a quality control difference, depending on what is ingesting it. It's misleading to suggest only one form exists. It's a blatant display of spin.
- nabla9 5y agoThe drugs don't contain just the active molecule. In fact, it contains less than 1% ivermectin.
- nomel 5y agoThe alternative to having a pill/dose that is one percent the active ingredient is a pill/dose that is 1/100th the size. These other molecules (except for maybe trace amounts of dihydrogen monoxide) can be found in the inactive ingredients list, and are completely unrelated to the topic at hand.
- nabla9 5y agoThe products meant for animals have different ingredients functioning as as carriers or enhancers. Some of them are not found in the inactive ingredients list because they are not FDA approved. Or they are in much larger quantities than has been approved for humans. It's also much harder to get safe dose from product intended to animals. People taking animal medicine are in danger of liver injury.
- cratermoon 5y agoProbably because, in rural areas, it's available without a prescription for veterinary use. Usually from the local feed and seed store, if there's still one around that hasn't been driven out of business by the Wal*Mart.
- nomel 5y agoI don't see how rural availability is related to how truthful a headline is, in the New York Times.
- cratermoon 5y agoYes, well, people who aren't familiar with life in fly-over country tend to miss a lot of things.
- bayouborne 5y agoThere are a ton of local feed and seed stores in at least parts of the southern US (Ala, Tenn) that are thriving.
- xqcgrek2 5y agoAmusing you quote wikipedia. Now that the "deworming" phrase is quoted in approved wikipedia sources (e.g. NYT), any one of the power editors who control certain wikipedia pages are now justified to change wikipedia to just that. See https://twitter.com/BrettWooldridge/status/1412768382936502277 https://twitter.com/BrettWooldridge/status/14127683829365022...
- angelzen 5y agoIvermectin was awarded the 2015 Nobel Prize in medicine. Human medicine that is. That the FDA would label Ivermectin a 'horse/cow medicine' is a new low. But given the direction Twitter is dragging the public discourse in this country, I can't say I am surprised. https://twitter.com/us_fda/status/1429050070243192839 https://twitter.com/us_fda/status/1429050070243192839
- cratermoon 5y agoHow to sneak misinformation in the back door: 1. claim a source that is stating facts to correct misinformation is false and misleading 2. link to a not-very-authoritative and easily manipulated source that has been edited very recently to promote uncertainty and doubt 3. follow up with additional confusing and poorly-sourced claims that boil down "but maybe there are some things we don't know, we should study it more" This is how the tobacco industry avoided liability for decades after research conclusively demonstrated the hazards of smoking and other forms of tobacco use.
- nomel 5y agoIt appears that you’re saying I’m trying to sneak in misinformation. > 2. link to a not-very-authoritative and easily manipulated source that has been edited very recently to promote uncertainty and doubt Are you suggesting that the Wikipedia page is wrong and Ivermectin is not used for humans? The brand name is Stromectol [2][3]. 2. Guidelines for human consumption: https://www.merck.ca/static/pdf/STROMECTOL-PM_E.pdf https://www.merck.ca/static/pdf/STROMECTOL-PM_E.pdf 3. FDA approval for that manufacturer: https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cder/daf/index.cfm?event=overview.process&ApplNo=050742 https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cder/daf/index.cfm?ev...
- cratermoon 5y ago> Are you suggesting that the Wikipedia page is wrong I knew this question would come up. The problem with Wikipedia isn't that it's wrong. It's that it's usually technically correct, and that it takes an expert in the topic to point out where articles, while not stating anything factually incorrect, nevertheless fail to accurately convey understanding of the topic. In other words, Wikipedia is usually "right enough" for many topics, especially non-controversial ones, that people generally accept it as correct. Things like the NPOV rule mean that you often see bogus "all sides" content, the lack of enforcement of the reliability guidelines for sources, and so forth make it possible for articles to obfuscate reality. In this case, we have people pointing to Wikipedia saying "look, it's approved for human use" and citing other sources as a way to intentionally confuse and raise doubt about whether or not the drug is effective for COVID-19. In fact, no studies have shown it has any value for COVID, but the misinformation is to ignore that and keep pointing out that it's not just a horse de-wormer, that it's approved for certain uses in humans, and encourage the reader to wonder if maybe the FDA can't be trusted, or that experts on SARS-COV-2 are wrong, and so forth. It's the same tactics used by the tobacco companies, as I mentioned, and also global warming denialists and proponents of DDT. I recommend reading Erik M. Conway and Naomi Oreskes book Merchants of Doubt: How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Climate Change And stop quoting Wikipedia. Arguing over what Ivermectin can or can't do or how that fact is presented is simply a way to keep the discussion "in doubt". Ivermectin has no therapeutic value for COVID-19 and in the form commonly available as a veterinary medication can be harmful. End of story.
- warning26 5y agoCan't say I'm exactly surprised, given his dismissive attitudes toward the pandemic in general.
- verdverm 5y agoI guess you don't realize that he got the vaccine and tests everyone who comes into his studio. He's not dismissive of it. Rather he thinks the government response was not well done. One of his favorite questions is "Why aren't they telling people to exercise and eat better?" because this leads to a healthier immune system. He is frustrated that the government only talks about masks, vaccines, and lockdowns.
- dagw 5y ago"Why aren't they telling people to exercise and eat better?" Hasn't the government been telling people this for decades? And more specifically 'they' have been making clear the connection between Covid morbidity and obesity since almost day 1. How can someone honestly and in good faith argue that 'they' aren't telling people to exercise and eat better? The problem is that the government telling people to exercise and eat better doesn't really move the needle when it comes to actually getting people to exercise and eat better.
- angelzen 5y agoHow can we tell apart 'dismissive' from 'There is hell ahead. Alas the only way is through it. Might as well keep some dignity, knowing fully well that some of us will not make it.'
- raxxorrax 5y agoIsn't he healthy again? Some people suspect media discolored a picture of him so he looks more unhealthy. Could be fake though.