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> useless gender studies degrees. I don't know why this is such a pervasive perspective, but it's really sad. This same logic extends to philosophy, theater, a

> useless gender studies degrees. I don't know why this is such a pervasive perspective, but it's really sad. This same logic extends to philosophy, theater, arts, psychology, sociology, and so many other disciplines. At which point, you're really just left with STEM, which seems to hint the preference is for trade schools (which do exist, but aren't favored). The loss of arts and social sciences would be a catastrophe for the academic world.

rbanffy 5y ago
> The loss of arts and social sciences would be a catastrophe for the academic world. But we need poor people to operate the machinery. They shouldn't be allowed to dream, write poetry, or do anything that we consider frivolous. The frivolous things are for the privileged to do. Sorry. My sarcasm couldn't be contained.
- newfriend 5y ago
  They are free to do what they want. Forcing me to pay for them to do it is another matter.
  - genewitch 5y ago
    >let them eat cake
  - LocalH 5y ago
    You're already forced to pay for many things that you may not even know about. Do you know where every single dollar of your tax money goes?
jknz 5y ago
> The loss of arts and social sciences would be a catastrophe for the academic world. But a blessing for most students who need a job to pay their student debts after graduation. Sacrificing art students by taking their tuition knowing no or too few jobs exist is unacceptable. Keeping social sciences and art departments alive should require a source of money that does not create non-dischargeanle student debts and jobless students.
- alpha_squared 5y ago
  That, to me, sounds like an argument for funding trade schools and raising their status in society so they're considered more often. As I understand it, a university education was never intended to be a gateway to employment, yet it became one as a byproduct of how we as a society talked about it. I was told countless times in adolescence how much of an income gap existed between those with a college degree and those that didn't have one. Software development, for example, very much falls under a trade, else there wouldn't be so many bootcamps that both feed into the industry and simultaneously take advantage of those who don't know better. There's no prestigious trade school that I'm aware of that produces consistently competent software developers. That's just one example, but I'd love to see more trade schools supported and elevated as a path to career employment.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    > There's no prestigious trade school that I'm aware of that produces consistently competent software developers. MIT? At least, it was accused of being a trade school toward the beginning of its history: > These reforms were largely a response to Walker's on-going defense of the Institute and its curriculum from outside accusations of overwork, poor writing, unapplicable skills, and status as a "mere" trade school. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Massachusetts_Institute_of_Technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Massachusetts_I... These days, one might think of U Waterloo as filling the role of a prestigious trade school given the focus they put on their co-op program. Which I mean in a positive light, of course.
  - nemo44x 5y ago
    > As I understand it, a university education was never intended to be a gateway to employment It also wasn't intended for middle class people of average intelligence. Consider, before WW2 only about 10% of people attended college. You either came from money or you were a rather bright person. Today it is an employment gateway. People mainly attend to "get a good job", not for the pursuit of higher knowledge and "finishing". For those of humble origins that want to use it to discover themselves or become an "intellectual", well enjoy the 100k debt while slinging lattes.
jeffy90 5y ago
I agree with you, but I do think it really is a problem that students disproportionately choose the "useless" degrees rather than STEM fields. I anecdotally know of many who in hindsight wish they had studied computer science or something more employable.
summm 5y ago
I would agree if the choice was binary. But it isn't. Many alumni of arts and humanities later go into professions that are not only useless, buy actually harmful to society, while not contributing to actual art and culture: Advertising, Marketing...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

rbanffy 5y ago

> The loss of arts and social sciences would be a catastrophe for the academic world. But we need poor people to operate the machinery. They shouldn't be allowed to dream, write poetry, or do anything that we consider frivolous. The frivolous things are for the privileged to do. Sorry. My sarcasm couldn't be contained.

newfriend 5y ago
They are free to do what they want. Forcing me to pay for them to do it is another matter.
- genewitch 5y ago
  >let them eat cake
- LocalH 5y ago
  You're already forced to pay for many things that you may not even know about. Do you know where every single dollar of your tax money goes?

jknz 5y ago

> The loss of arts and social sciences would be a catastrophe for the academic world. But a blessing for most students who need a job to pay their student debts after graduation. Sacrificing art students by taking their tuition knowing no or too few jobs exist is unacceptable. Keeping social sciences and art departments alive should require a source of money that does not create non-dischargeanle student debts and jobless students.

alpha_squared 5y ago
That, to me, sounds like an argument for funding trade schools and raising their status in society so they're considered more often. As I understand it, a university education was never intended to be a gateway to employment, yet it became one as a byproduct of how we as a society talked about it. I was told countless times in adolescence how much of an income gap existed between those with a college degree and those that didn't have one. Software development, for example, very much falls under a trade, else there wouldn't be so many bootcamps that both feed into the industry and simultaneously take advantage of those who don't know better. There's no prestigious trade school that I'm aware of that produces consistently competent software developers. That's just one example, but I'd love to see more trade schools supported and elevated as a path to career employment.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  > There's no prestigious trade school that I'm aware of that produces consistently competent software developers. MIT? At least, it was accused of being a trade school toward the beginning of its history: > These reforms were largely a response to Walker's on-going defense of the Institute and its curriculum from outside accusations of overwork, poor writing, unapplicable skills, and status as a "mere" trade school. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Massachusetts_Institute_of_Technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Massachusetts_I... These days, one might think of U Waterloo as filling the role of a prestigious trade school given the focus they put on their co-op program. Which I mean in a positive light, of course.
- nemo44x 5y ago
  > As I understand it, a university education was never intended to be a gateway to employment It also wasn't intended for middle class people of average intelligence. Consider, before WW2 only about 10% of people attended college. You either came from money or you were a rather bright person. Today it is an employment gateway. People mainly attend to "get a good job", not for the pursuit of higher knowledge and "finishing". For those of humble origins that want to use it to discover themselves or become an "intellectual", well enjoy the 100k debt while slinging lattes.

jeffy90 5y ago

I agree with you, but I do think it really is a problem that students disproportionately choose the "useless" degrees rather than STEM fields. I anecdotally know of many who in hindsight wish they had studied computer science or something more employable.

summm 5y ago

I would agree if the choice was binary. But it isn't. Many alumni of arts and humanities later go into professions that are not only useless, buy actually harmful to society, while not contributing to actual art and culture: Advertising, Marketing...

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]